Your thoughts on this so called 'new' JRT Controversial

spent the last few hours at the farm of my horse transporter, my little one (7)trying out another pony (she was cantering around jumping 2'6", you'd think they'd known each other years, not just met) and he has 3 JRTs, all shorter legged, but not teacup sized. They are working ratters, and good workers, My little girl was rolling around on the floor playing with them all, them climbing all over her, but even though they are small, they still do a job, that's small enough, we don't need the handbag sized stupid terrier, JRTs are small enough..lets keep them like this, eh?? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!! LOL

Do not understand why people want something smaller or something bigger than what is available naturally. The big problem with breeding for the extreme is that the dogs selected to be bred are often not the most healthy not the best constructed so along with breeding for small or large size you are inevitably breeding for poor health and construction. It is not just breeding for size that causes problems any breeding for one feature leads to problems, successful breeding of fit and healthy animals requires that the whole animal is taken into consideration.

here here!!!!!!

Jack Russells were bred to kill Fox, the short stumpy legged types are NOT typical, and most are not heavy or big enough to do the job they were bred for, commercial breeding to supply a pet market, thats all they are. IMO.
Dawn.

BorderDawn, I prefere MY Parson JRT, with her long legs and quite substantial body, for me that's a good working (and yes she works) terrier. She's a tad shorter than my sisters dog, but she is an up to height bitch, capable of taking down most vermin.. Some people like the little legged..(squat) JTRs, still nice, not my cup of tea, as they get in the way out riding the horses, but the ones I know are still worked, very good ratters I might add.
The problem is when they are bred soo small that they can be carried about in a pocket, and made into an accessory for stupid dumb b*tches (non animal kind, hence the star), they still think they are terriers. Barbie will be upset when her £400 shoes are "killed"!.. My Parsons is perfection, in my eyes, and I can't ever see me wanting a smaller weaker, less able version, but carrying the same attitude... :?

By short legged, I mean not running round on stilts like my Parson JRT...LOL, normal sized JRT, like the ones Brian Plummer had..not those queen anne legged things that their bellies are almost on the floor, that is not a working dog, that's a footstool!

Sure it is not your intention to cause offence but I fear you may do so, we all have our own opinions of other people’s dogs but unless asked it is best not to comment especially in such derogatory terms.

sorry if I did cause offence, this was not my intention, I was trying to say that what I referred to as shorter legs wasn't the extra short legged JRTs, as I don't think these perform any of the functios a terrier was made for. The post is on opinions of the "new" syle JRTs though, and personally, my opinion is that they are useless, and pointless, and probably going to end up with loads in dogs homes, cause the people who buy them won't want a terrier, they want a toy. I hate this type of breeding, for fashion, for the latest trend, because what happens when "tiny" dogs are not trendy anymore?...
Sorry if I did cause anyone offence, just my opinion.

Yes Honesty I agree, I like a Terrier to be a Terrier, to be physically able to do the job it was bred for, so many breeds have had their conformation altered to the degree that it stops a functioning working dog. I have seen the "Queen Anne" types work Rats successfully, but Fox would be a different matter, I havent seen one tackle a Squirrel properly either, they can be quite a quarry for a terrier.
Dawn.

LOL, yeah, I've also seen my Parsons try to climb a tree after a squirrel, I don't think she realises gravety affects her..LOL, but she's so big. We saw her pointing at the undergrowth, so off came lead, the squirrel ran straight up the tree it was at the foot of, she scrambled up about 3', and then fell flat on her back, got up and went mad at the tree, ripping at it with her teeth, as if it had made her fall over..idiot!!!! LOL, needless to say, the squirrel got away, my daughter killing herself laughing as we were just walking to school at the time.. didn't realise she was doing her hunting bit when i had let her off, just thought she was being nosey...
again, a dog should be able (not necessaraly do, as sometimes there are factors that get in the way) the job it was intended for.

Sure you meant no offence Honesty, I learned the hard way that on this forum people are very careful not to upset others, it is what gives it the friendly feel. Does not stop you saying you do not agree or that something is not to your taste, I did not mean to cause offence either but there is no doubt that I did, still not changed my opinion on the subject but avoid it when it comes up

Excuse me for mentioning it but did not want the anger of all small terrier owners down on you or the thread to diminish into a slanging match

Personally I like a dog to be fit for it’s purpose but these days some breeds and cross breeds do not seem to have a purpose except to be companions and how you manage to stop these breeds changing into all sorts of different shapes, sizes and weights I don’t know, not too bad with breeds that have a standard and compete against that standard but for the non-recognised and the cross breeds I do not know how stability can be obtained. JRT’s seem to fall into the latter category with some being bred for working and others as lapdogs or companion dogs, none the worse for that but when people start taking it to extremes that is asking for problems of both health and conformation

You didn't offend me Thordell, I'm not that easy to offend..LOL. Far from it actually, as it wasn't until I went back and read my post that I realised to some it might sound like I am bashing their precious pets, when really that was not my intention, what I was trying to say was totally the opposite of how it had come out..LOL
Something anlong the lines of...every loved dog has it's place, and each to their own, I just cannot see the point in creating a pocket sized terrier, that cannot perform the job of a terrier, yet will have the mindset of one. It's asking for trouble,
IMvery humbleO.. not only that, but breeding the smallest to the smallest, weakest to weakest, surely this is only breeding problems into a dog, instead of trying to add strength and fitness to a hunting animal.

sorry to anyone I did upset, BTW. Again, wasn't my intention, just my opinions...

Someone earlier catergorised the 'smaller JRTs' the same as these 'trendy' designer dogs that celebs seem to go for...

But is there any proof that, that is why we see the JRT getting smaller and less like it's original shape?? Cuz I don't think this is a new thing to be honest as I have seen small stubby little JRT's around for all my life.

Perhaps it's purely down to bad breeding alone?? Or more likely comparable to why you see two very different types of lab, some looking nice and athletic, longer legs and much healthier in contruction and some with little stubby legs and although lovely dogs, a poor comparison build wise.

I wonder if the average owner is actively seeking a 'tea cup' JRT or what they have is just what they happen to have because it's what's out there.

I agree that it is supplying the 'pet market' that is most likely causing them to get smaller because the thought for the build work wise most likely isn't being strongly considered by many breeders which is a shame because even though many might not actively 'work' it would still be nice to retain the original shape purely because it looks healthier.

People can want after, smaller, bigger than intended but it's supply that creates the market, demand isn't enough alone...

...and I think it's to easy to blame the Paris Hiltons of the world as to this apparent new surge in petite designer dogs, she isn't anything new, that's why you have tiny Yorkies etc etc because women centuries ago like walking around holding them under their arms as a fashion accessory, it's been going on 100's of yrs...

Good post Mys.
Dawn.

yeah Mys... and it's a bloomin shame too.
Only so mad about it as my poor Parson, bless her is so big compared to these tiny JRT that everyone now thinks is the norm, I'm sick of other JRT owners, who know nothing of the breed as a working dog, asking me if my BELOVED pet and ratter is a JRT X spanial, or a JRT X Staff etc, cause they can't figure out why she is as tall, or well built, on race-ier legs. No, she is a working terrier, bred to hunt, bred as a worker for strength and speed, bred as a farm dog, and worked on a farm every day, not for how cute she is.. (though to me, she's the best looking dog in the world, rat bite scars, wonky jaw (horse kick to face) and nearly missing toe all included, they make her who she is..). Each to their own, but, my own is the bigger, long legged, bigger bodied type, personal taste.

I read that the reason the 'Jack' Russell Terrier came about is because people tended to prefer the 'shorter' legged ones and they sold better. I love that they come in different shapes and sizes and, let's face it, even if the smaller ones aren't as suitable for hunting, the personalities are NOT in anyway small ;-).

I love them all, no matter what shape or size but tend to favour Jacks to the Parsons. They are a great little dog with loads of character as I'm sure you all agree! If only I had the room to have a few more or ten ;-)

Hi Honesty, it does surprise me that people with 'Jacks' are not aware that that the Parsons 'exist' :smt017 although I'm aware that the majority of people out there don't.

My JR's brother is long legged and nearly as tall as a Parsons and is a great ratter with the honourable scars to prove it! Let's face it, if you buy a JR to work, it will, with enormous success no matter what the size is. I know the history due to my GREAT love of them and it's important to me. But not for all, they just love the breed because of their looks and great character, whether it be for a pet or to work. Please don't blame these people who are ignorant about the breed.

hey JackRussellsRule! yeah, have to aggree, JRT are fantastic, spend a hell of a lot of time with terriers, my own and other peoples.. every farmer I know has a few, be they long or short legged, wire or smooth coated, fat, thin etc.. I just can't understand anyones want to make an already small dog even smaller.. they are small enough...
As for the Parsons thing.. just have to accept that not every JRT owner knows anything about terriers..LOL Ein's happy being a taller short dog, she has someone she can look down on... LOL pity I have to look up at everyone.. (4'11").


Wonder what would happen if we tried to breed mini Labs?? LOL (JOKE!!!)

I just love terriers and thought it was great at Crufts this year when they said that they always look forward to the terrier group because there's always something going on! Bless em, aren't they just GREAT!

I hope people aren't breeding JRs smaller because they want the latest fashion accessory??? Let's face, they aren't, in any sense of the word, a LAP dog and I think they'll have a nasty surprise if they think they are, no matter how small.

Got any pics of Ein?? What other terriers have you had?

Don't speak too soon about the mini Labs. Afterall, they're breeding labradoodles, jacknoodles, pugles and god knows what else!!

Had a great JRT as a kid, she got stolen from our front garden, her dad was my Grandmas Long legged JRT, that was it, I was hooked. My entire childhood we had a golden Lab, he was ace, but we also had another terrier too, paterdale I think, I was only little, so don't remember much, apart from she bit people..LOL, not us though.
Then, when in my early teens, we got milly, a short legged JRT, to go with the then black lab, lurcher X and the fluffy dog that hated me...
Milly was fantastic, always had a soft spot for her, and I taught her to sit at curbs ( she used to pull my mum into the road) and to sit for treats etc. She's gone old and mad now, loosing her sight, hearing and mind..bless, but acts like she's a pup..I love her.
Ein is, well...an accident.. My OH didn't want a dog..( he had had a dog as a kid, moved out and it stayed with his parents, and then it was old and died, it hurt him a bit) , and I'd grown up with them, I really wanted a parson for ages, and like buses, two come along at once. Within 2 days, my sister had one from nottingham, and I got Ein from up here (thanks sis for getting her for me). Best thing that ever happened to me in a long time was getting my dog.
Have loads of piccies, but can't get them up on photobucket..(sigh) and some really great ones with the horses at shows etc. Even ones in a little Leather Jacket..( my daughter loves dressing her up like a doll...and she puts up with it all). As soon as I can I will flood the forum with piccies, she's due a litter very soon, so baby ratters all over my house..YAY!!!!