You Don't Know the Challenge Posting This Controversial

Sorry I didn't read your edit on colors. Only about the history. Which does seem unimportant if bulldogs and pit bulldogs split from EM predecessors, what was worded in the OP post was different though which was that were mixing a bunch of dogs.

So what do you mean by a "true brindle"? A brindle is brindle it is the same gene be it mastiff, bulldog, greyhound or dutch shepherd. It is caused by what you said Kbr allele.

I never mention albino, genes for such a condition hasn't been isolated in dogs (to date anyway). Since I see you put that in edit. I already explained how white is absent of pigment and I was talking about white found on S Locus (doesn't exist on A Locus).

http://www.forum.breedia.com/thread...dogs-of-great-britain-and-ireland-1899.14646/

Lack of pigment white is MM or double Merle if your talking deaf.
Albino without pigment is C Locus.
White with pigment I stand corrected, as it is listed under A but it own category, and is not a identified gene yet, though it is one.

I'm not talking about Merle. Which isn't in APBT. (Not pure bred ones anyway). Merle isn't in Dogo Argentino or Boxer either both of which can suffer deafness. My Boxer's breeder ended up with a white Boxer unilaterally deaf. It's a commonly recognized problem. It is the same reason why double merles can be deaf though.

Dogs have either black or red pigment. White coat lacks pigment. It is the result of the cells being UNABLE to produce pigment. The piebald gene causes this defect. White can cause deletion of any coat color.
It can again also cause bi or parti eyes as can Merle. Dogs could have both eyes be blue too instead of bi eyes as a result of pigment reduction.

The C Locus theory has yielded no results to isolating an "albino" gene in dogs even though this exist in other species. There are clearly genes that dilute pigment but they haven't been found yet and don't appear to be any associated with the C Locus.

It is on S Locus, never seen it listed under A. The gene in APBT (and most other breeds) has been identified. It is called piebald. It causes white coat. For genetics testing of my dogs I use Animal Genetics Lab & UC Davis lab. Both of which are able to test for white.

I hope that we didn't misunderstand each other. I don't mean a white dog has no pigment anywhere on the body. A dog can have skin spots, nose pigment all that. The dog can also show color and be high white instead of solid white. Just the area of the coat that is white is where the absence of pigment exist. That's what I meant.

OK going to check out the other post now.

If you key in something like " Genome research on ancient dog breeds" it will bring up some interesting information. I have a Shar-Pei which along with breeds such as the Basenji, Husky, Shiba Inu and Saluki are the most ancient breeds in the world.

Slightly off topic, but to show how ignorant people can be of bull breeds .... some years ago a friend came to stay for a couple of days, with her two dogs. One was a Rottie, the other a Staffy, both very well trained. They'd only been here a couple of hours and were playing quietly in the garden, when I heard someone calling my name. It was one of my neighbours who announced she was reporting me to the police for having a pitbull on my property. It took me a good half hour to convince her that Tiger, the Staffy definitely wasn't a pitbull!

I read the online book in the thread Lmost posted last night. I read past the EM part. I thought it great how they pointed out the chang of English Bulldog and what not. Back to EMs my question is Crown Prince was a red nose correct? Does the liver gene still exist in the EM? Or has that been eliminated.

Thank you Pork I will surely check that out. I'm not surprised at your situation either. At least Staff and Pits are very closely related. Some breeds look very different and while they might be bully breeds the relation us far off & completely looking physically. I find most people can't tell many breeds apart on average. I'm glad you were not reported on.