"Wolfdog awareness course" General Chat

Hi banji

When I said people tend to tell you want they know you want to hear, I was talking about the puppy buyers You are right in what you are saying these people think they know better than the breeder, it is hard to tell who is genuin and who is not.

It would take more that just one trainer, it would take 100's to cover the whole of the UK, and it would take a lot of organizing if it were to happen, not that I think it would.

I personally think, that as long as it is provided by a person with good knowledge of wolfdogs, then it sounds like a good idea. Ref price, if it is being provided by the breeder of these dogs, then I can't agree that people should be charged for it. After all, they should be more than happy to educate prospective owners of their dogs. However if it is provided by an outside party, then maybe a small charge should be made.

the breeder of these wolfdog does give advice and a lifetime of support free to people who buy a puppy from him.
the training day offers alot more in respect of practical interaction with the dogs.would also help you decide if they are the breed for you which can only be good for the dog.
vets charge a fee for a service as do dog rescue places which charge you for a rescue dog and then another fee to take the dog back if it doesnt work out with the dog.thus encouraging people to buy a puppy from a breeder. so why shouldnt they charge for a wolfdog workshop day.
everyone has to make a living to survive.
if you look at it too much its all far too political and that is not what having a dog should be about.

Fare point, and yes it does get far to political sometimes.

If they bred the dog, then its their responsibility surely to ensure the owners they find are suitable. Do you honestly think they should pay more money on top of a purchase price for something most breeders would do as a matter of course?

I would personally walk away from any breeder that wanted to charge me an extra £80 to meet the dogs and go on an awareness course!!! This is all part and parcel of being a GOOD breeder and spending time with the dogs helps the breeder to understand what type of person you are and if the dog is going to be right for you.

Of course if all you care about is ££££ in the first place then i guess it doesn't matter. . .

do you read everything which is writen or just the bits you choose to object to.
that was precisely what i was saying about some puppy adopters who dont listen and make it up as they go along and wander why there dog doesnt behave as well as the breeders or others who have taken time to be educated by someone who may know more than them.

Originally Posted by banji
the breeder of these wolfdog does give advice and a lifetime of support free to people who buy a puppy from him.
the training day offers alot more in respect of practical interaction with the dogs.would also help you decide if they are the breed for you which can only be good for the dog.

its a choice to pay and go on the course, its another experiance.read it on the cry wolf forum.

a breeder cannot determine whether a new owner will definately follow what he has said, he can only hope and im pretty sure many people have been told they are not suitable as owners for these dogs.

thats what lifes about,freedom of choice.
how wonderful we have that freedom.
i know where i would rather go.
i would rather give a reputable educated breeder £1000 if they do it well , what a good way to earn money.
if i was confident i was able to breed and earn money at that level of cleanliness and health and devotion then i would be happy.
the work that goes into breeding at that level is admirable.
the experiance of the teepees etc great fun,what a great holiday if you want to be with wolves and dogs.

To be perfectly honest and I mean no offence, I have real problems following your posts at all due to lack of grammer.

My point still stands, what they "offer" should be free, especially given the cost of such crossbreeds.

Can you tell me how much experience the breeders of these dogs have of them as pets? Which is what they are selling them as. Again, purely observational here, but most live in kennels and have little house socialising at all. (Although I appreciate some certainly will live indoors) I have NO problem with puppies being reared outdoors of course, but just wondered the extent of "living" with them. The reason I bring this up is a valid one, as I recently heard of another type of dog bought here (UK) purely for selling purposes and one of the dogs in question is now dead. I remember the breeder of this dog saying how "adaptable" they were, but clearly they were not in this case. (Not Wolfdog types BTW)

have you visited the farm.

I was just sat pondering as you do and thought its great for Charlie and Shaun to charge £80 a day for breeders knowledge but seeing these dogs out in the wild is not really going to put them in a fair light.
People who buy these dogs are not buying them to live in the wild they are buying them to live in the home.

Most good breeders can and do make sure any prospective owner gets to meet mum n dad of puppies, doesn't make any sense what so ever to me to be charging people extra money for any of this kind of service, instead of trying to run courses why doesn't he charge people to live at his home and help with the dogs, he already does that service for free...there again running a B/B with wolf dogs running loose would cost a fortune to insure...

The problem with this is....

Ok I could have people here for one day, show them how to work kaos, how I trained him,

BUT dogs are not a one size fits all,

they could come the next day and work with vinnie, they would be shown a compleatly diff method of training him,

then the next day the same thing for holly, and tegan.

Even having learned all that, its still highly likely that the pup they get will need training specifically tailored to that pup, its life style and temprament.

why can they not offer training one day/night each week for there puppy owners? free of charge, thats what I do.

or even once a month for those who are not close by.

I was thinking exactly the same about my sibes. Yes they have breed characteristics in common, but they are all individuals and all respond to different things in different ways. If we can say this about established breeds like Rottweilers and Siberian Huskies, which have a fairly consistent type and temperament, how much more will it apply to a variety of crossbreeds with no consistent type and temperament?

Mick

exactly!! I think these £80per day courses, will give people false confidence, they may only see the better behaved dogs, they may go away thinking there pup is going to be a carbon copy of the dogs seen..

As already mentioned, the dog in question are not pets as such, most dont live in the house, most dont go into town on a lead, or do other family things.

Yup, totally agree...

In terms of the Boxers, all prospective owners were completely Boxer-fied by the adults before even seeing the puppies with the 2 litters our boys were from. They were expected to come and go on a short walk with the adult Boxers to see how they reacted; and play in the garden, and go into the living room with them. If they 'passed', they could see the mum and pups together. If not, they were politely shown the door.

The breeders lost quite a few owners that way. There were some that were too scared to meet the adult dogs, some who refused to hold a fully grown Boxer's lead, some who refused to have the dogs anywhere near, or actually touching them... (all prospective owners knew what they would be expected to do before visiting).

We took Max over to do some meet and greets with prospects for Murphy's litter. One family who came couldn't believe how big the males were (and Max isn't huge!) and refused to stroke them. They didn't get a puppy.

Once they were on the list for a puppy, they could visit as much as they wanted (with notice to the breeder).

I'd expect to meet adult dogs and interact with them if I was on the list for a puppy. I'd expect to be grilled by the breeder and 'interviewed' by the dogs as well before even seeing a puppy!

As already mentioned, the dog in question are not pets as such, most dont live in the house, most dont go into town on a lead, or do other family things.

puppies that young dont get taken out anywhere.when they leave the farm its up to the new owners to do all that quite obviously as with any breed of dog.

what kind of farm is it, livestock or arable?

But presumably the majority of people who are buying these pups expect to be able to take them into the house, walk them on a lead etc.

What good is the course if it doesn't give prospective owners a chance to watch adult dogs do these things, and give the prospects a chance to handle adult dogs doing these things?

Surely visiting the dogs on the farm, in their own compound is useless in terms of buying a family pet?