Whats going on with NI pups? Controversial

Please can I ask - where do they get their CWDs from? Do they import them?

I did see the parents, and asked questions at the time, but it was over a year ago so I can't remember it that clearly.

No they didn't, to be honest this was the first time I'd got a dog that wasn't a rescue, so I was probably a bit naive in the questions I should have asked.

I don't know, but I'll ask the question and see if I get an answer and let you know.

As a sideline thoroughbreds are all decended from 4, not 2, arabian stallions, who were bred to a wide range of english mares. It was not a "closed project" like most dogbreeding.

Absolutely ditto for me too.... prior to reading this thread I wouldn't have known what to look for either, as mine are either rescues or street dogs too.

It seems kinda obvious now, but if you have no experience, how would you know?

I can easily see now how alot of pups can be sold with a less then desirable pedigree to unwitting people. I think the sort of information you should look for when buying a pedigree pup should be made a bit more available TBH.

If regular Joe's starting asking really pertinent questions then the dog breeding world just "might" start getting their act together.

I couldn't agree more! The problem is that when Joe Public decides he wants a puppy, he wants it NOW!!! and the badly bred dog he can pick up today often trumps the well-bred dog he might have to wait a year for.

Similarly, even armed with all the appropriate questions to ask, an accomplished puppy farmer can be very convincing and it does take a while in any breed to develop an effective bullsh*t detector.

I do agree however that the more information a buyer has, the less likely they are to be stung.

Mick

Exactly. I've seen lots of info about something as basic as seeing the Mother of the puppies. But even now, people are still buying puppies that are 'brought out' to meet them, and don't even see any litter mates or parents. If they don't get info about seeing the Mother, then I guess theres not much chance they'll know about health tests, let alone demanding to see them.

There were pure Czw's in the country before these breeders started to cross them. They probably got them from within the UK. The Czw's already here were brought in before the kennel club and defra decided to get akward - they came in with no probs - it was just after they did that the kc and defra got together to enforce they would need a dwal. Although I hear that people have imported them still with no problem [importing them is fine - I guess you just have to show your are obtaining the license or something??].

Thanks Mys.

I was told the BIDC got 2 CWDs from Europe.

I'm sure that there is no problem with importing them so I'm not surprised

I`m confused - am mega busy at the moment so don`t have time to go back to the relevant posts so please someone correct me if I`ve got the wrong end of any sticks

If Efes123 dog is from two NI parents, does`nt that make him an NI regardless of what other names are being used ? I mean, if someone buys a Poodle and falls out with the Breed council for instance so calls their dog something else that would`nt change the genetics of that dog, it would still be a Poodle - same as an NI to NI offspring is still and NI.

But if the dog is NI x Alsatian then he is a crossbreed so should`nt be called nor registered as BI or NI or anything else except on the activities register if applicable and would be classed as a crossbreed.

I don`t understand why dogs of same breeding can be called different breed names - ie the original Utes which were NIs or vice versa - outcrossing is one thing but to just break away and dream up new names for the same lines ie Utes, NI, BI and whatever other names come along just does`nt make sense in fact to me it makes a mockery of what was supposedly a new breed development :?

Any over the years which have been crossed with something else and are F1s are crossbreeds of course, not `a breed` so should`nt be called by a breed name nor registered with any society as any other than a crossbreed.

Efes123, to save me trawling through pages while I`m so short on time, please can you clear up the actual parentage for me - I hate being confuddled just because I`m having to skim posts so quickly at the mo inbetween trying to get lots of things done offline

[ Apologies if my post is a bit garbled, rush rush rush ]

It's a mad world Patch, but it is happening - a Utonagan breeder and founder of a society took her Utonagan dogs, changed their name to her newly chosen breed name and included them in with the newer dogs she was 'developing' and in the breeding programme. The argument was that the Utonagan lines were suffering from a small gene pool and health issues (she only had access to a limited number because of fallings out with the other breed club) so she wanted to get some 'new blood'.

I wonder about the health of these dogs because, for instance, I know one female has had an epileptic pup (when she was a Utonagan).

If people were truly starting again with health in mind, and being careful not to include dogs that have been assocated with ill-health, I wouldn't have such a problem with it but by using dogs that have produced epileptic dogs (and more!!!) they are repeating the same mistakes and the same thing will happen.

One reason could be that it is NI in terms of parentage but bred by a BI breeder under BI ethics - which they probably feel are different to NI breeders etc...That's just one guess that I see as a possibility.

Very good point. Perhaps they want to disassociate themselves from the original club and name.

Also maybe the N.I.S don't register any dogs that the B.I breeders breed so it would make any NI they breed look unregistered - so they will have set up their own concern where pups can be registered and accounted for - then if they were still called NI people would probably think there was something wrong if they couldn't register with the N.I.S so to save confusion to people they probably thought it better to call all the dogs they breed B.I. Maybe?!

Thanks, I believe that's exactly the reason. I think she thought it easier to re-name the dogs than to carry on fighting a losing battle against some of the NI breeders. I can see her reasoning, obviously you'd first try to correct any wrongs within the breeding practices first, but if this doesn't work this is an option for non-pedigree dog breeds

Hi Efes123,

Your puppy's grandmother on his fathers side, is she a BID? rather than a NID being called a BID? Just curious, as you know I stumbled on the website and add when you baby was still at the breeders

Yes, I agree but unfortuantely I don;t think the breeder on that KC Programme sees it like that. She wanted Ridgeless puppies pts As per their code of ethics

I am ashamed that she is seen to represent RR breeders. It gutted me when I heard it
There are bad breeders in every breed