Whats going on with NI pups? Controversial

The society does keep a database and I do update my entries if anything changes

Just because u asked so nicely i will happily do that no problems

There you go then , we don't have to be breeders. I would never breed.

The above post picqued my curiosity, so I went looking and found these definitions elsewhere to do with breeding:

I've also got to ask, (please excuse my ignorance!) what's GGS, GGD and GS ?

Yes your correct, these definitions will be found everywhere in breeding,

them mean, Great Grand Sire/ Great Grand Dam/ Grand Sire and so on,
My concern was that on a three generation pedigree,, there are only 14 dogs on that pedigree, with three of them being the same dog and on each parents pedigree and the grandam being the same dog thus six times this dog features out of a total of 28 dogs, with the bitch featuring twice,, now bear in mind,, that the offspring of these two will be litter brothers even though they have diff names on each line,,,
sorry Im not good at explaining pedigrees, poss someone can explane better,
but the bottom line is, they are heavily inbreeding this litter of pups

I am assuming the following:

GGS - Great Grandsire
GGD - Great Granddam
GS - Grandsire

Where as in people we have grandfather, great grandmother etc in dogs they are called sires and dams.

HTH

Good info thanks!

So, as I understand it, these wolf-look-alike dogs, not specifically NI, have a history of being inbred because?

Did they not start off with a big enough gene pool in the beginning?

If so, what would be construed as a big enough gene pool to start?

I'm curious as one day I would like to become a breeder of Bulgarian Karakachans which are becoming diluted and pure ones very rare here.

What is wrong with headcollars? Much nicer than some collars. Lots of dogs wear them.

In answer to the first two questions, No one really knows, info on the NI dogs is very hard to get, many breeders dont really know either, the founder breeders dont seem to want to offer info either, no one is really sure how many dogs were used to start the breed, but it would seem just a handful, which is no where near enough

Well, looking at the breed history of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog which is well documented, it looks to my inexperienced eye as if 4 females only were used - they document 5 separate lines, 2 of which were the same female.

How is the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog rated from an in-bred perspective? Anyone know?!!

Can you clarify WHICH wolf-look-a-like dogs you are talking about?

Any or all of them - I don't want to pin-point a particular breed as it appears to have been levied at all of them at some point or other!

But then are you including Mals, Sibes and GSD's in this??

Or just the NI/BI/CWD/SWD

For now, I'm looking at Northern Inuit, British Inuit, Czech Wolfdog, Saarloss and Utonagan. Have I missed any?!

This is probably now the wrong thread for this question - I'm trying to figure out which of these wolf-look-alike breeds are having the "in-bred" allegation levied at them and why!

I was looking at the Utonagan and I saw on their website that they themselves state when warning against inbreeding that: "historically the breed has been too heavily inbred already"

Most British Inuits & Utanagons started off as northern inuits.. so they share most of their inbred heritage.

I would say they have to be inbred given that most of them all have mahlek in their lines on both sides and as SHona pointed out (can't remember if it was this thread or another) that the same dog appears so many times on the pedigree

Does this mean then, effectively, that any old Joe can start up a breed and create Pedigrees without any kind of governing body?

This seems a bit bonkers!

Sadly that is exactly what has happened and as they cant get on or people dont like there breeding practises then they start a spin of breed.

Basically yes, although they won't gain KC recognition unless they meet the approval of the Kennel Club.

And NIs were declined recognition from the KC