What makes a breed a 'breed'? Discussions

TIDA says that it:

Therefore they still ALLOW crossbreeding, whereas the NIS does not.

The NIS has a large enough genepool of pure NIs to breed true to type without inbreeding. I expect if TIDA still allows crossbreeding, it is because their genepool is not yet large enough to do this.

thats just not true

that is why I was so shocked to find that the dam of one of my dogs, an NIS bred dog, has an inbreeding of 45%, so why was this done if there is a large genepool?

also the NI's of both groups are the same dogs

spot the difference

What is Talli ?
1. NIS NI
2. BID
3. TIDA NI
4. a cross breed



Answer. possibly all four
1. as he is an NIS reg NI whose was reg before the split with BI
2. his breeder and his line of dogs are now BI, so is he now a BID or is he still an NI
3. He is registered with TIDA
4. well he is registered with TIDA so guess he is a crossbreed


I don't really care if he is 1,2,3,or 4 he is a wonderful dog

I'd be interested to find out more about your dog's pedigree. As you know, the NIS say they LINEbreed dogs, not INbreed them. When you say your dog is 45% inbred - what exactly do you mean by this?

I'm not saying that ONLY NIS-registered NIs are true NIs. But when people say some NIs look like GSD X Huskies, that is because they may well be exactly that! The trouble is that as NIs are not a recognised breed, people can breed almost any old thing and call it a NI.

There are many unscrupulous breeders out there CLAIMING to be breeding NIs when in fact (from the look of their dogs), they are NOT breeding pure NIs. This leads people to believe (wrongly IMO) that NIs do not have an established type.

To see we have a type all you have to do is look at pictures of the Essex show. A whole ring full of dogs that look like NI's and have a very obvious type.

I think you can tell the difference between an NI and a NI cross as well. They look different esp when the cross is with a Husky.

Also feel i should mention about the inbreeding, in Ella's pedigree there is not one dog which appears more then once in the first 4 generations and only one dog that appears twice in the 5th gen.

But if you look at me brothers in laws springers pedigree's you see the same dogs coming up again and again . . Thats inbreeding.

So could the genepool for the NIS be large enough but still small enough to be using inferior dogs (by that I mean with faults or health problems)..SO in essence there is enough dogs but maybe not enough in good health or good examples of the breed..this would explain the breeding from epileptic and cryptorchid dogs..

And I would LOVE to see an array of NIS NI pics to show this "type"

I think you might be confusing the NIS with another NI group here.

As Razcox pointed out - why not take a look at the pics of the Essex show?

No..I am not confusing anything

have already looked..

As i didn't go to the essex show this year i don't have any pics to post and i wouldn't want to use some one elses with out permission. The NIS homepage doesn't have the pics up yet but i'm sure some on on her would be happy to share there photos.

The NIS does NOT breed from dogs with epilepsy.

Louise13, exactly what are the differences you see between the dogs which make you think there is not a 'type'?

Is this a proven fact?

Are all siblings etc tested and no sibling used? or no sire or dam used that produced epileptic offspring?

I am curious about this as well. All the adult dogs i have seen either in the flesh or pics are very much to type. When it comes to the younger dogs you can see differences but thats because they are still growing. I have noticed with Ella that everything grows at different speeds. Last week her tail was too long this week its her ears and the legs look to long!

They do not all look alike..Differences include, coats, colours, ear size, construction, muzzle shape, tail shape, the huge range in size,
Some look like GSD crosses, some like poorly bred sibes/mals. There is not a definate type across the board

You get long coated Mals which are not to breed standard BUT they still look like Malamutes..

There is no 100% test that can be carried out at the moment, the best anyone can do is not breed from dogs with epilspey or those who show it in the lines. This is what the NIS is doing.

In answer to the original post, one word for me makes a breed "conformity "

Of course there are different colours! There are very few breeds that only have ONE colour variation. The mal is certainly not included in this.

I have been told there is no test for epilepsy at present. I have only heard of one NIS dog having epilepsy and it is believed to be caused by a trauma afflicted before she was rescued, rather than by a hereditary form. The bitch concerned has been speyed.

Many colours are permitted, as are both heavy and standard coats.

You have probably been looking at immature dogs to notice a difference in ear size that would warrant there being no 'type'. As for size in general, I would disagree that there is a HUGE range in size - most are within a few inches of each other.

Again, I have not seen enough variation to say there is no 'type'. There are still quite a few curly tails and patchy coats about as NIS dogs have been bred for health and temperament primarily so some breed faults still need work to be bred out (as with any other breed).