Trust - A Deadly Disease Discussions

I`m a terrible member too! Anyone with no experience of HPR dogs would assume they should never be offlead - they range and hunt...and until you realise they can be whistle-trained over distances they are really worrying. And all Hounds have their own unique problems too.
Of course it could be that Huskies have been bred like this? Unwittingly I mean. You can breed traits in the same as you can breed physical characteristics.
Years ago GSDs were frequently used as guard dogs - left to roam in enclosures. Consequently good temperament wasn`t a breeding issue and you got some really nasty beggars around. Then a law was passed that said guard dogs had to be accompanied by a handler, and breeders had to work on temperament. Now GSDs are a lot friendlier. The police would say too friendly!
The Fox experiment has proved how temperament is affected by breeding. I wonder how much of this `independent / aloof nature` is down to the people who are looking for a wolf lookalike wanting a dog like that? (No offence to people who work / run their dogs - but I`ve seen an awful lot of pet huskies who have never been near a rig)

I know of two good trainers who had huskies---one did agility and was determined her pup would be able to run free.One did HTM.

Both ended up having to use enclosed areas and not able to let them run free.the agility husky worked well---bit like running next to a bike but as soon as attention was off him and things slowed down he went.

There was a similar problem with a Pharoe Hound.

rune

I am also a member of this club. When we go for walks our husky is off lead too and they all have a ball together. I am not saying it was easy and there were some battle of wills but its worth it to see her run around. We were told never to let her off lead and the fear of god was put into us about this by the breeder, so she was on lead until she was 7 - 8 years old and i though to try and train her. Her reacall is not the perfect dash back right away i have with the NI's she will take her sweet time about it. To help with this i had taught her the wait command where she will stop and wait for me to get to her. This means i can have her on the lead very quickly if i need to and stop her at gates ect to make sure its clear. Its a middle ground that works for us both. Here she is enjoying her freedom:

Recall



in the bogs



And with my others causing trouble

I have also had to work the wait command, or stay in our case. No, I don't have Sibes, but I do have independent dogs which don't recall well. Most people in the UK never let their Estrelas off lead, and when we had Loki, most Elkie owners we spoke to also never let theirs off lead. Dan won't recall right back to me, so I have to tell him to stay and go to him. Rio has OK recall, but she is what she is at the end of the day. I can start a walk with Rio and she disappears and meets up with me later in the walk. I don't worry about her because I know what to expect from her. I would worry about Dan though, as he ahs no common sense, so sometimes he is on a harness and long line. We are spoiled for good off lead walks here. What I am saying is that it's not all black and white IMO. If you have a safe area, let them off, if you don't have a safe area, you really shouldn't. What I totally don't agree with though is those people who keep their dog on a 3 foot lead for it's whole life, and neither work, train or find alternative exercise for their dogs. I do believe that if you choose to own a breed that may have poor recall, you should be prepared to FIND somewhere or some way of exercising that dog, for it's physical and mental health.

Most of the sibe and mal owners on forums seem to do this. The average owner doesn't.

I can't speak for others, but we have always been consistent on this and recommended strongly that off-lead exercise in enclosed safe areas and as much recall training as possible is a very good, if not essential thing. What we advise against is offlead exercise in unenclosed, unsafe areas.

The problem with this is that everyone will then assume that their husky is one of the special ones. As I have said before on numerous occasions, too many of these highly trained obedient 100% recall huskies have died on the roads or have been shot for savaging livestock on the first and last occasion that they went "deaf." It just isn't worth the risk.

Mick

I do understand that some dogs cannot be safely let off lead. But this is temperament, not breed IMO. My friend`s Westie for one. My Hound if there is a likelihood of game.
But to tar an entire breed with this stigma seems (to me) a case for either taking a hard look at breed standards or their management.
The Husky is not (usually) being used for the purpose it was bred for. But this is true of most breeds. Is it time for husky breeders to look at the temperament of dogs bred to be pets?

Im not really qualified as such for a more educated answer but Atlas goes off lead. However, he's only off if there is no-one around AT ALL! If he sees someone or another dog across the field, his selective hearing comes into play and hes off - despite having great recall the rest of the time.

His training is coming on great, but he does tend to stay on his long line (8.5mtrs) if there are others about. I believe as he grows, so will his confidence and he will have a higher tendency then he does now to run and chase. When that time comes, he will be staying on his long line. Id much rather keep him safe and well exercised than giving him the "freedom" to cause damage or kill himself.

Hi Rune

Very similar to the experience I had. When I started in the breed I was lucky enough to take my guys to training class run by an Animal Welfare Officer who had kept sibes for decades. I struggled with my understanding of sibe recall and she tried to explain it to me in that:

My sibe will not come back to me through lack of training or because he is a disobedient dog. If he chooses to run he will be very aware that he has lost his owner when he stops. The trouble then can be that he may, adrelaline fueled, have ran for two days.

Something I think about everytime I am just about to unclip the lead.

Hope this finds you well Rune

Take care.

Seoniad.

To be perfectly honest, the vast majority of husky breeders in the UK aren't interested in anything other than cold cash. They breed for money, not conformation, temperament or anything else. Interestingly, huskies bred by ethical breeders who both show their dogs and work them in harness tend, in my experience, to produce much better temperaments, much more consistently than do those who breed "for the market."
I don't think the "off-lead" thing is a stigma, it is simply a breed characteristic. In the same way that I wouldn't keep two Akita bitches together given the breed's tendency to same-sex aggression, nor would I let my huskies off lead in unenclosed areas or have less than 6' fences in my garden knowing the breed tendency to escape and explore. Trying to change the breed in this one characteristic would no doubt have extensive repercussions in other areas of their temperament. I don't personally view this trait as negative, just something to be aware of. What is negative is the constant determination by some to ignore advice and put their dogs at risk.

Mick

I don't "ignore" the advice Mick, willy-nilly. I have done much research over the years, met many husky owners of both working huskies and pets, and I have come to the conclusion that with hard work and dedication you CAN let your husky off the lead and keep it safe.

Obviously , the same rules apply as with any breed ... if you let your husky off lead around sheep, then expect the worst! I would not let ANY breed off around sheep, even a collie whom I knew to be sheep-proof! But round us where we have miles of set-aside, and although not 100% escape proof, has never caused me or many other villagers a problem in the 12 years of having northern breeds, I fail to see why a husky could not be safely let off lead to run free.

Seoniad, I've got a serious question to ask you. I see you have huskies as well as a husky/mal cross. In your opinion are the pure huskies "worse" at the running and running and not returning, or the Mal cross?

Lovely dogs! Lovely to see them off lead having fun!

Interestingly, our Shiba Inu (and all the Shibas we have had in the past) are much worse at recall than any of our huskies have ever been. Very few Shiba owners let their dogs off lead. We don't hear much fuss about that though!

Mick

Is the view of NO ref the Husky being allowed the same freedom as 'other' breeds when off lead a worldwide one?

It appears to be with Mals (ie America) so i would be safe in assuming its the same with Sibes x

Hello Gnasher

Good question. Jacub is an Alaskan Malamute x Siberian Husky, no other breed in his mix. Puppy farm bred for profit to cash in on the designer 'Huskamute' market.

Jacub shows much less desire to run than our sibes. He is an obedient boy by nature, steady and reliable in his responses to training.

Compared to his sibe pack mates he is very very different.

I can only speak for Jacub as an individual. I'm sure that other sibe/mal crosses are different.

Take care.

Seoniad.

Yes - as far as I know every breed club in the world makes exactly the same recommendation.

Mick

I didn't know that! But now I do, I shall have a moan at Shiba owners too! Joking apart, apart from thinking them to be fab dogs, I really don't know much about them, so shouldn't comment. But knowing me I will!

I don't have huskies, but I have Lurchers, which a lot of people say not to let off lead as they will run, but I do, they have been trained in their recall, although if for some reason they are walked for a few days on lead, when I can let them off lead again, well this is when the problems start, they have too much pent up energy and have to exert it somehow, so I kind of have a theory with this, its that most of the time they are allowed the freedom of being allowed to run offlead, so although its nice for them, they don't see it as the be and end all, but a dog that nots allowed off when allowed off will run like theres no tomorrow and may not come back to the lead after, because it is going back on the lead, if that makes sense? And I don't know if thats the same for Huskies.

However where I live their is a gorgeous siberian Husky called Jacob, and he was allowed off lead down the school field from day one, and has a great recall, and I was also wondering whether its because of where he runs, I mean its not enclosed, and there is other dogs there, but thats it, other dogs, and he is use to these (his best friend is a shih tzu) but if he was allowed off where there is the chance for wildlife I wouldn't think that his recall would be as good as it is down the school field, as I think that there is less distractions from smells and things so that his attention isn't so much on his nose, again if that makes sense.

Although I do know that it is lovely to see him run, I do think that owners of dogs shouldn't just let their dogs off because it may be the exception, and I also think that owners shouldn't let their dogs off because they are Huskies, but they should judge their dog individually and decide themselves what they think, and yes they should listen to the experts, but I think that each dog is different, and the entire breed can not be judged as a whole.

+Well that's very interesting. 'Cos your Jacub sounds exactly like my Tai! On the whole very obedient, and certainly would never ever run and run and disappear over the horizon. The only time he has ever "run away" in the nearly 2 years since we rescued him, was a few weeks ago when OH was walking him round the set-aside and he suddenly took off across the rape and disappeared down the valley ... it was a bitch on heat ... he came roaring back OH said after about 5 minutes, and then sat in our conservatory howling and howling to her!