To Crop or not to crop. That is the question. General Chat

And perhaps worth noting that at nationals there were over 500 dogs... Of which only the 2 were not docked. There was probably less than 20 that were not cropped.

After all I willingly paid for my epileptic girl, that is not very nice to say that I declined pain medication because I did not want to pay for it. It was never offered by my vet because he did not think it necessary. And none of my spayed bitches ever needed pain medication as they were all up and running the following day. Because my vet knows what he is doing and does not cause them pain.

Might I suggest you read my Profile and then maybe understand that I was joking about cropping someone's ears? I am a partial quadriplegic so the idea of me cropping someone's ears or threatening someone is ludicrous.

Face to face? What? Is the person that I "threatened" willing to get down on their knees so that their face is at the level of mine?

Do not be silly and pretend that you thought I was being serious and threatening violence.

Mind you, it has given me a lovely laugh in which to start the day.

They weren't saying you did that just that some people do refuse pain meds. If you weren't offered them I'm very sorry.

Please forget it. My Litle One slept on my slippers the first night after being spayed as my then bed was high. She got up on it the next night. Pereg, who was larger,was up either on that night or the next - I forget. My mini monster was checked again here in my home yesterday by her primary vet after she closed the surgery, and apart from needing different cream, her wound is OK and has nothing to do with the fact that she had been rushing like a lunatic from the day after her spay. It was just one of those things. And believe me, if I had been offered pain meds for her then I would have accepted them, whatever the cost. But she is little and she sleeps in a crate at the end of my bed.

No, I was not offered pain meds, and no, none of my girls seemed to have needed them. But - if I had thought any of them were in pain, I would have telephoned and pain meds would have been sent round in a taxi within minutes of my call.

I think that is more than some other vets would do.

Well I'm glad all was well in the end and she's happy and healthy now Odd that you weren't offered meds but very happy you didn't need any. She's sounds like a silly pup can't wait to hear more about her

To suggest because a vet knows what he is doing the dog will not be in any pain is rediculous. Major surgery will leave the resipuent in pain regardless of how good the surgeon is, that goes for human and animal. Don't be fooled into thinking because an animal shows no pain they are not in any, it's in their DNA to show no weakness. I think if my vet sent my dog home without a follow up of meds after serious surgery, I would be looking for a new one.

I think that's true to a point with things about pain meds. My grandmother who is 78 and acts likes she's my age she's a hoot but she had to have surgery on her finger it was decently invasive but nothing to crazy and she didn't get pain meds for just a hefty shot of whatever they use for pain that lasted her awhile, she had minor discomfort but not real pain. For a spay I would assume they give pain meds but possibly in the other posters case maybe the dog had a hefty shot of something that would keep pain away

and by the same reasoning, animals that are docked/cropped are also likely to be in unrecognised pain.

1- Pity you never learned how to spell.

2 -Hopefully you will never need such a vet who will be so wonderful to come out at to at give your dog peacel

3 - Hopefully you will never need such wonderful vets that I have. Who will make house calls day or night and as when necessary.

No - they do not dish out pain medications, but that is NOT because I am not prepared to pay for it. I would NEVER pay for anything my dog need.

Dogs are not born with docked tails & cropped ears so what right do humans have to dock a tail & crop the ears ?
No one knows if the dog is in pain regardless of what age their ears are cropped, they are done for looks only - the same goes for docked tails there is no reason to have any dogs tail docked [unless on medical grounds] the argument that it's done because they are working dogs is ridiculous how many Labradors & Golden retrievers have you seen with docked tails ? they are working dogs but they have their tails.

LOL Malka your nasty streak is never far from the surface is it !!

2) I have one of those vets, they are not that unique.

3) ditto 2, yep as above,

Your realy suggesting that a wonderful vet can perform major surgery and not cause the dog any pain, surely you are realy not that naive.....

On a side note malka, just for you, yes my spelling is not the best, it's due to losing many years of schooling as a child due to major illness, but hay ho, thanks for pointing it out.....you never fail , that nasty little steak of yours can't help itself LOL!!

Labs and Retrievers have thick hairy tails, and their job is not one that would injure their tail, traditionally docked dogs have little hair coverage or their job is such their tails can get caught in heavy cover.

The argument " what right do we have" to do this or that makes me scratch my head in wonder, we have the right, because we can!! It's that simple, you could argue what right do we have to breed, little dogs, big dogs, castrate, spay, keep dogs captive, we do it because we can. What right do you have to breed your dogs, you do it because you want to, you don't ask the dog if it's ok, you do it because it fits your intent.

The same goes for docking, cropping, castration , there may be good or bad arguments for it, but fundermentaly we do these things because we like the look or it suits our lifestyle.

There's a lot of talk of 'fit for purpose' these days. If a purpose means having to chop bits off, is the dog really fit for that purpose?

Again, as you say, Jackie, it's because we can, but that doesn't mean that it's desireable

I didn't say it was, just stating the fact we do what we do to animals because we can some is down to opinion , some preference and sometimes unimaginable cruelty .

Docking and cropping may inflict a brief amount of pain ( docking in particular ) but then Figo screamed like a banshee this morning when he had bloods taken, should I not inflict this on him, due to him feeling a sharp Jab, cropping is not something we will ever need to consider here, but that does not stop me liking the look, if I was ever in the market for another boxer pup, and docking was legal here, then I would probably be interested, because I love those little stubby tails, it's a look I love.

This argument is so flawed it made me laugh. Boys are born with foreskin and it gets cut off I bet that doesn't feel so good so in what you are saying they need to stop that practice, even though it's healthier. Baby girls get their ears pierced and that totally fine even though it hurts the child. In both these cases they grow up knowing non the wiser. Dogs are born with ovaries and testicles and people cut them out which is far more extensive then a crop or dock. So by your logic one unnatural and harsher surgery is more humanne. Get a grip. Do you have a son ? Do you or have you ever own a cropped or docked dog? Have ever worked a high level protection dog? I owned a golden and they are far different in working capability, comparing the two is ridiculous. Purely for looks is also an ignorant statement since there is plenty of factual evidence of the health benefits. I even took the time to post an article so before you go blasting your ridiculous opinion that aren't backed by any facts or even anecdotal evidence keep your opinions off my dogs.

Well said ! I agree I bought my dog he's mine to do with. That's like someone else telling you what's better for your child, that does not and will not fly with me.

Chopping bits off ? Oh I'm sorry is your fixed ? Cuz if so you just "chopped" something off you dog. Have you ever met a cropped dog ? A docked dog ? A higher level working dog ? Owned a high level working dog ? Owned a cropped or docked dog? No? Then once again you are just another person who has no actual factual or ancedotal evidence. So why are you arguing for or against something you know nothing about.

I did not say you declined pain medication, that some people do. Sorry if it came across that way. I'm on another dog forum where it was brought up by a bet employee because they don't agree with people declining the medication. As those same people would probably be taking meds after a surgery and it's not fair for the dogs, ect.
When my female was spayed a couple months ago (Nediva in my avatar) I took the pain meds home and paid for the shot. My other female (Realm) had a small follicular tumor removed, very minor and a few teeth so she was sent home with a 3 day supply. Last year, in June when Nediva's mom was spayed I also took the pain medication. Years back when I had a younger female spayed (around a year old) I, myself, declined the pain medication. I doubt I was judged for it, but I had left over partial bottle of rimadyl from my dog that died of cancer.

It doesn't matter how much they know what they are doing. It can still cause pain. In that case a vet who knows what they are doing won't cause pain in a crop. My vet now uses laser surgery which is even better. Nediva nor her sire had any complications and they don't give pain meds for it. The dogs run around and play thru don't need to be inhibited.

I didn't think you were serious. As I said I don't feel you threatened them. I know your medical situation. But their response was into what you said.

The type of surgery, the natural pain killers from the body and the individual's pain sensitivity will vary. I have a high pain tolerance myself.

I wouldn't dream of having a boy circumcised. The 'healthier' argument is, I believe, being discounted in many quarters. I also wouldn't dream of having a baby girl's ears pierced. I have two sons and a daughter. On the ear piercing front, the rule was 18 years of age when she was old enough to decide for herself.

Protection dog? Unless the dog is being trained for professional purposes, ie police, military work etc, then it is for sport only and so, therefore, again owner preference. Personally, if I had to have a dog chopped about to make it suitable for a sport I fancied participating in I either wouldn't do it or I'd get myself a dog that didn't need surgery to participate.

Another ridiculous argument. No its not just for sport and if you had any knowledge you'd know it was a test to prove your dog is suitable for breeding. Circumcision is absolutely healthier ask any doctor ! And you may not agree but you are just one person you aren't the rule. So once again if you have and know nothing of it keep it to yourself and do your research maybe even meet a cropped litter.