Thinking of getting a HWV - feedback? Questions

The breed hasn't been around long enough for there to be a full on split, but I've been told by a few people now that a split is beginning to occur as some people concentrate solely on the breeds appearance for the show ring. The problem the breed faces is that light coloured, soft coated dogs have been winning in the ring so frequently now that many judges assume this is what the breed should look like. Also you can get the full variety of coats in one litter, so even if you breed two hard coated, russet coloured dogs together you could still get a light, soft coated puppy. This puppy will have all of the working instinct of it's parents, but the soft coat won't protect it from the weather when working. Not to mention that light, soft coats are incorrect!!!

I thought it would be interesting to post the coat/colour part of the breed standard from three different countries to show where the UK one lacks.

Firstly FCI Breed Standard - the one used by the breeds country of birth and found here:

HAIR: Wiry, close lying, strong, dense and not glossy. Length of outer coat 2-3 cm; dense, water repellent undercoat. The outline of the body must not be hidden by the longer coat. By its hardness and density, it should provide as much protection as possible against weather conditions and injuries. The lower parts of the legs as well as the undersides of chest and belly should be covered with shorter, softer and slightly thinner hair; the coat on the head and on the leathers is shorter and, at the same time, a little darker, however, not soft and dense.
Pronounced eyebrows accentuate the stop. These and a strong, not too long (2-3 cm), as harsh as possible beard, on both sides of the muzzle, underline the determined expression. On both sides of the neck the coat forms V-shaped brushes.

COLOUR: Various shades of russet gold and dark sandy gold (semmelgelb). The leathers may be a little darker, otherwise uniform in colour. Red, brownish, light yellow or lightened colour shadings are undesirable. A little white patch on the chest or at the throat, not more than 5 cm in diameter, as well as white markings on the toes, are not considered faulty. The colour of the lips and of the eye rims corresponds to the colour of the nose.

Next the US breed standard found here:

COAT
Wiry, close-lying, strong, dense, providing as much protection as possible against weather conditions and injuries. Not glossy. Three-quarters of an inch to 1¼ inches (2 to 3 cm.) in length. There is a dense, water-repellent undercoat. The outline of the body is not to be hidden by the longer coat.
The lower parts of the legs and the undersides of the chest and belly are covered with shorter, softer, slightly thinner hair. The hair on the head and ears is shorter and a little darker; however, it is not soft and dense.
Pronounced eyebrows accentuate the stop. These, along with a strong, harsh beard, ¾ of an inch to 1¼ inch-beard on both sides of the muzzle reinforce the determined expression. The coat forms V-shaped brushes on both sides of the neck.


COLOR
Various shades of russet gold and dark sandy gold. The body is uniform in color but the ears may be a little darker. A small white patch on the chest no more than 2 inches (5 cm.) in diameter, as well as white markings on the toes are acceptable. Lip and eye rim pigment corresponds to the color of the nose.
Faults: Red, brownish, light yellow or lightened color shadings.

And finally the UK breed standard, found here:

Coat:
The wire coat on the neck and body is harsh and close fitting, up to 4cms (1 1/2 ins) long, with an undercoat, which is normally heavier in winter. The hair on muzzle is short and coarse, the hair forming a small beard on the chin. The skull is covered by short, dry hair. Hair on the ears is short and fine. The eyebrows are dense. The coat is shorter on the lower part of the legs, chest and belly. Longer hair is permitted on the rear of the legs. On the feet and between the toes the hair is softer and shorter. Coat on the tail is dense and stronger.



Colour
Golden sand to russet. Small white marks on chest and feet should not be penalised.

Note the distinct lack of a mention of a hard wire coat for the purpose of weather protection and also the sudden appearence of the colour "golden sand" in the UK version??? Since when where Vizlsa's ever any other colour than russet??? Although I know the HWVA has applied for the standard to be changed to make red/brown and light coats a fault, lets hope it's approved and makes a difference!

Here's a link to the latest HWVA Champ Show results with a slide show showing the placings in each class.

Just wanted to add, I'm not aiming all that at you Leanne, it's just a topic I'm quite passionate about and your post made an interesting point.

I can understand from a pet owners view that colour, working ability etc doesn't really matter, but from my perspective a breeder who breeds a litter from incorrect coated parents (the coat being what the breed was originally created for, did I mention that?! ) is basically not a very good breeder and should be avoided. They should love the whole breed and aim to better it from all aspects, if this is done then I believe you'll be halfway to finding yourself a good breeder. JMO of course.

There was a funny quote in the HWVA yearbook, not sure if you're a member? It said "You don't own a HWV, you wear one!". Thought that was brilliant!

I think they are a bit more sensible definitely, but owning a male of the breed I've yet to discover it!

Thanks very much again for the feedback. I think it's important not to just breed show types. I've seen a few very skittish smooth coated vizzies and weims and they didn't seem like they'd be able to do much of what they were bred for. Also agree re the correct coat type. My Grey has incorrect hair on his head, ears and legs, probably also missing enough hair on his belly. I have wondered if this would be what makes him suffer quickly in the heat.

Coats vary wildly in Slovaks still, some are nearly bald, some look like sheep; some can work, some do not, same as any other breed really

You can't tell whether a dog will work just by looking at it either IME!

I have no doubt that had Oscar gone to a working home he would've been bred from. He's got incredible hunting instinct and is extremely trainable, but his temperament on good days is unpredictable and on very, very bad days is borderline fear aggression! Sadly, both working and show breeders sometimes get blinkered and will only consider their own best interests and not that of the breed.

I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect dog, but I know we all have brilliant companions whether they're void of a little hair or mental stability or not!

Hopefully that applies to human companions too! ROFLMAO

I don't think anyone has suggested such a thing have they? That said I think you know that ensuring both parents have good working instincts will give you a good indication of a pups potential. And of course seeing a litter pointing at 6 weeks old helps an awful lot too.

Oh totally! Can you tell which one I am?!

Similar post

Er yes Londonlou did actually.........

I've seen a few very skittish smooth coated vizzies and weims and they didn't seem like they'd be able to do much of what they were bred for.

Well I suppose if they're skittish they're more likely to be gun shy so I can understand the assumption from that perspective.

Interesting theory..............

I think theory might be a bit of a strong word, but it's most likely what I would think in the back of my mind. Interestingly though Oscar is very skittish, fearful of most things, but not of gunfire. Heaven, small mercies and all that!

Sorry! I was probably meaning breed standard where they shouldn't be displaying fear, nervousness etc. I'm sure there is probably something like that in the various breed descriptions.

!

Its called Vizsla Myositis/Polymyositis.



http://www.vizslamyositis.blogspot.com/


http://www.hungarianvizsla.org.uk/myositis.htm

And from what I hear, it is beginning to raise its ugly head in the wire too.

A terrible fatal diseases, and thankfully they (breeders) are now doing something about it.

Oh yes, for Weimaraner it is fearless, protective, obedient and alert, hunting ability of paramount importance.

However there may be nothing wrong with the dog genetically but it may have been undersocialised by the owner.

That is why it is SO important to know lines so that you can make an informed decision when looking at litters; if you know what is behind the dog you are in a better position to make an informed decision.

One of my pet hates is to see a genetically sound dog completely ruined due to poor ownership.