Things you think are 'wrong' with wolfy type crosses/new 'breeds'? Discussions

FACT: This dog was PTS due to people aggression AGAIN

FACT: This Dog was PTS due to suffering Epilepsy.

KCJack - the epileptic dogs - do you see a possible pattern/common dogs?

You know i have a feeling that no matter how many pedigree's you put up it will be said - well thats only 10 or thats only 50, how many will be needed?

Does this mean you're relying on something someone else posted on another forum? Mmmm, sound like it must be true then.

No I wouldn't, and again you miss the point. If I met said person, and they had done what has been said, then I would probably slap her in the face with a wet cod, then chop her legs off. BUT this still doesn't affect the genetics of the dogs in her care.

FACT:Both these males have produced monorchid puppies, and the first soft ears.

Is there any other breed in the UK that is inbred and dominated as much as NIs are by Mahlek

I don't know, that would depend on how many dogs there were. There's a calculation somewhere, I'll try and dig it out, that gives a percentage need to make an informed result. I would think that 10 or 20 wouldn't mean jack, I mean Kcjack said there were thousands of dogs so even if all showed aggression, then that wouldn't even be 1%.

I think thats probably true but you'd have a bitch of a time proving it. You'd have to research every known breed.

And how much is that? What percentage? And again at an early stage of breeding is this normal? And does this equate to genetic problems?

Hi Efes
Problem being it would still not be a good representation. Take 100 people in any survey for any topic & all you will get is results from people who enjoy taking surveys.
If there is 2,000 NI's (guess, for talking sake) How many of those 2,000 dogs owners are members of Dogsey?
See what i mean?

Yes that is right, and it's something I've mentioned before. But if all the owners of the wolfy breeds on Dogsey were to contribute then that might tell us something. I've also mentioned this before, there was a thread on here a few weeks ago asking for all the owners and breeders to list their dogs and any health problems. I now can't find it, but I seem to remember there were 58 responses and only 2 or 3 problems. As it was so one sided I'd tend to say that there wasn't a major issue. If the result had bneen the other way then I'd have happily agreed that they looks to be a problem.

Kcjack had shown 6 where there is some issue I suspect that I could post 6 and say there was no issues.

Also monorchidis actually passed on by the female, so I'm curious as to how both the males from Kcjack's example have produced those puppies. See how rumours start, those males are now stuck with that stigma on here.

The question I'd be more interested in being answered is how many wolfy dogs have been pts due to agression, and is that a high number based on the numbers and percentage of them. As I know this answer it's safe to ask, and guess where I got the info? Well it was on a defra report that someone kindly posted on thuis site (thread was related to needing a licence). The report stated that in all the studies in Europe and the USA that wiolfy dogs were no more agressive than any other breed, in fact the figures suggested that they were a lot less agressive than a GSD for example. Mmmm odd that isn't it?

Interesting to see those pedigrees pop up on here, I dont accept that its FACT at all ,its a possibility yes but for starters the pedigrees are not embrossed by any society or association and as stated elsewhere they dont match up to other owners dogs who appear on the pedigrees, so its anyones guess as to whether they are actually genuine. As for the information about the dogs in question again possibly true but not fact as the information has come from unreliable people who have told many untruths depending on thier current situation... So no not fact, a possibility yes but an uncertain one.

Dogs can also become aggresive due to environmental factors like poor training methods and owners who just dont have the skills to develop a balanced dog.

You said it!

Is there a chance that you might actually answer any of the questions I've asked about your statements of truth? Or are you going to keep bringing up different things against the breeds?

A reminder:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcjack
Is there any other breed in the UK that is inbred and dominated as much as NIs are by Mahlek


And how much is that? What percentage? And again at an early stage of breeding is this normal? And does this equate to genetic problems?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kcjack
Because you are not allowed to sopy and paste of another frum or else would happily do it.


Does this mean you're relying on something someone else posted on another forum? Mmmm, sound like it must be true then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcjack
Severe in breeding ( proof can be seen elsewhere Pm me for link)

Tumours and aggression in certain lines (also Pm me proof elsewhere).


Again the same old stuff. If it's fact why wont you post it? Where are the figures that prove this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kcjack
OK, so far the facts we've had of what's wrong with the wolfy breed are:

No health checks done on original mating pair

No single organisation in control over the breeding/registration

At least 1 Re-home centre that re-homes 'entire' dogs - is this wrong?

Founder of breed and current chairperson of NIS has 2 cruelty convictions and 1is for cruelty to dogs and was giving a 5 year ban.

Severe in breeding ( proof can be seen elsewhere Pm me for link)

Tumours and aggression in certain lines (also Pm me proof elsewhere).

1 line with genetic disorder (epilepsy) still being bred from


You are persistant :smile:

OK, say I'm a breeder and I beat my dog senseless every day, and get a cruelty conviction. Does that affect the puppies that that dog will produce? I don't think so, it may have a nasty temperament, but that wont be a genetic thing. The dog may not even be that healthy from a physical point of view, but unless it has a genetic disorder there's not a lot I can do to it to make it produce pups that are wrong, yes I know this is not quite strictly true. Your argument is about the person, not the dog and keeping a dog in a cage with crap around it will not affect the breed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kcjack
It is very apparent she is a troll would say it was JK but she can spell.


Sorry, what does this mean?



Quote:
Originally Posted by kcjack
They are facts none the less and are very relevant as the woman blimmin created the breed and is very responsible for many problems so please add to your list as was facts you were after.
And some of those pedigrees are from owners not just SC so again are fact so please add to your list.



They may be facts, but are they relevant?

I'm not the one who has thrown doubt on the pedigrees, in fact I published my own, or rather my dogs. And I'll say again in-breeding is common practice amongst all breeds. It's the amount, and if it results in health problems that an issue.

So, do you have facts and figures as to the amount of in-breeding going on, or is this another guess based on half a dozen pedigrees out of the, to quote you, "thousands of NI's"?


I can't be bothered going any further back, but I don't think you've answered one question yet.

Try telling that to Kcjack, you muight have more luck than me.

Well said.

OK so if they're not genuine, how can they be used to prove in-breeding. I agree there may be a problem, but I'm not as yet convinced that it's a big one.

This brings up an interesting point. Are Wolfy type dogs difficult to train more so than other breeds?

Heres an interesting post that I came across

Inbreeding does not create undesirable genes, it simply increases the expression of those that are already present in a heterozygous state.

If a full brother and sister are genetically free of disease, breeding them together will not create that disease in the puppies. If two totally unrelated dogs each carry the gene for a disease, breeding them together will result in some puppies that are affected with that disease. (For a dominant trait, only one dog needs to have the gene.) It is not inbreeding that is responsible for the spread of genetic disease, it is uninformed breeding.