Things you think are 'wrong' with wolfy type crosses/new 'breeds'? Discussions

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment. You're right tho'. if I was ever to breed, I don't think I would be accepting anyone's word as proof, or some dodgy pedigree, personally I wouldn't even accept health cert.s without checking them with the vet who signed them. And I'd insist on DNA.

But then, hey, I seem to be some idiot that can't see that in-breeding isn't a good thing

Nope, what I need is facts, not opinions, not quotes from some 3rd person.

I agree, there's no excuse. Nope, that's not what I'm implying, I say it's still going on in other breeds, as per recent tv programs.

Nicely taken out of context patch. But I'll still answer it. Because that would make them breeders, not owners. Read the whole original post.

Won't get what exactly?

A very nice piece of misdirection.

Err, can you tell me what these claims are that I've been making Dawn? I can't remember making any.

There have been 2 owners on this thread that have said there were health problems with their dogs, and one of them it turns out is worried about potential problems. I'm not diminishing the worry before you jump on me again, just saying there isn't as yet a problem. So where are all these reports from owners and breeders then Dawn?

Cor, a 50 page plus thread and really only 1 dog, plus some of it's siblings has actually been proved.

Posting someone else's pedigree and then putting fact in capitals and making a statement, doesn't really prove anything.

What I was trying to do by comparing established breeds is show that if something is going on, and accepted as good breeding practices in KC registered breeds. Then surely if that same thing is happening in the wolfy breeds then it can't be wrong. When I compare other breeds it's about what is happening now, not when they were originally bred.

Er, no. I mean using the CWD as in the case of BIDs

But surely if it's recognised, and endorsed by the KC, then how can that same practice be bad in any breed. Or is it just because it's a wolfy breed?

Just reposting this as I don't think anything has been added since I first posted it

Im not interested in your "I cant see it" attitude anymore, quite frankly it sickens me that somebody cannot see what is happening to these poor dogs. Take your head out of the sand Efes, its a whole different world.

You KNOW where the owner and breeder statements are I am not redirecting you again, I even posted a couple on here, please yourself Efes you plummeted in my estimation when you asked if "any harm" had been done, when somebody like LS was taking part and her Dog suffers Epilepsy and I expect goes back through the same lines your dog does, I really cannot be bothered any more.

You're very good at twisting words and comments. Frankly I don't care what you think of me, I actually think you are one of the few that does have some evidence. But they way you post makes you seem like some sort of fanatic on a crusade, and miss-quoting, and twisting others posts don't help your cause.

Your style of making a statement, then when asked to clarify it, you're off on another track. stated that

Yet when I asked you to say what claims I've made, you conveniently forget and attack from another angle. I'd still like an answer to that personal poke at me please.

And yet again more scaremongering I expect goes back through the same lines your dog does!

LS is the only one on this thread that has categorically stated there are health problems with their dog. And they know my sympathy goes out to them.

The evidence you pointed me to (a thread started by you interestedly enough), is full of words like rumour and I've heard, hardly facts, and hardly proof. Another talks about aggression, yet there is proof that aggression in these dogs is a lot lower than a fair few established breeds, and there is no proof that they are aggressive.

Great, you can't be bothered anymore, sounds like an excuse as you can't prove your statements.

I am not the one who is making statements about the health of the breeds.

One thing that keeps coming up as proof of a wrongness in the wolfy breeds is that they are aggressive. Please read this report on the DEFRA site:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/gwd/wolfdogs/wolfdogs.pdf

The most aggressive dog is the GSD - FACT - More people go to hospital after GSD attacks than any other dog. Is this considered a wrongness in the GSD? I've not heard it if it is.

There is no evidence to suggest that the wolfy dogs are anymore aggressive than any other breed - FACT - the investigators could find nothing to support this myth.

As I said I have directed you to the proof and I am no longer interested in YOUR crusade Efes. After all, I am not the one sitting with dogs that could burst out with several illnesses at any given time, due to the disgusting and disgraceful breeding practices and lies told by the people who bred them, am I? So you carry on all you will, and I will say once more, I SINCERELEY hope your dog never suffers like a lot of others are doing.

You would be better served on the NIS forum, all the health issues that REALLY are there are hidden, so your way of thinking and intolerance of what is really there will be better accomodated.

READ!!!! I took posts from the other thread to make easier reading, please read things correctly. I had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING on that forum untill directed there, sorry.

Thought you couldn't be bothered anymore?

I'm not on a crusade, unless you count asking people to prove what they are stating as fact.

Again more scaremongering, the key word in the above is could.

I'm intolerant? How? I'm not trying to hide anything. In fact you could say I want it in the open, but only if it's a fact, not an unfounded opinion.

Oh, and you've still not answered my question.

Sorry, not going to discuss another forum.

Poor practices are poor practices, it doesn't matter who endorses them.

Please don't pull the 'picking on wolfy breeds on me'

There may never be the kind of proof you are looking for for several reasons. The only definates I can see without going on anacdotal (sp) evidence are -
1- the pedigrees that have been shown are as correct as they possibly can be due to very poor record keeping in the beginning. Looking at these pedigrees would lead to a very high COI which has been shown to increase the risk of hereditory diseases being evident. There has been cases cited that this is now beginning to happen.
2- The pedigrees are false and in truth no-one knows the origins and matings of the dogs involved in so it is impossible to state honestly whether dubious breeding practices have been carried out. If this is the case then all breeding should be stopped until DNA testing has been carried out. IMO

That makes it difficult to know whose standards we should aspire to, but you're right two wrongs don't make a right.

Nope, just like it balanced. You must admit it is odd that no other type of dog seems to attract as much vitriol as these breeds. There must be at least half a dozen posts on this thread alone attacking the breed because the poster doesn't see the point of them. I don't see that with any other breeds yet I personally don't see the point in a few of them and I doubt I'm alone. I don't see the point in some of the bulldog breeds, they're full of hereditary problems (joints, breathing), but I don't see anyone posting any sort of criticism at them. By the way I do like the dogs, think they're great, but I don't see why they continue to be bred with characteristics that aren't healthy.

Aye, that about sums it up I think. Not sure I agree with stopping ALL breeding. If a breeder can prove there are no genetic problems with their stock, then they should be allowed to carry on breeding.

I personally agree DNA is the way forward, although how to enforce this is a problem, so unfortunately it's not the silver bullet answer.

I seem to be getting the reputation for being pedantic. Must admit I can be that, but if that means I wont accept a statement as fact without some sort of proof then so be it. That must mean that most scientists are pedantic. I don't think I'm quite as extreme as that. LS stated her dog has health problems, I accept that, I don't ask her for proof I accept her word.

Actually you are
Wrong that is no fact at all!

in the UK the most dog bites are reported for is the 'Spaniel' also which some can have the disease which is called Rage Syndrome.
(and just for your info in America 65% of attacks are Pitbulls. Chihuahuas & dachshunds are way up on the list too)

Vets often say it is more likely to be GSDs as well as staffys/rottis/jack russells as they are the most common types of dogs in the UK. but the hosiptal facts prove otherwise! it is actually the 'spaniel!'

their are also more cases of Humans biting eachother requiring more hosiptal treatment & you are more likely to be struck by lighting and killed than have a dog attack you