Spitz Breed Off Lead Poll Discussions

Totally agree. Certainly didn't feel like a 'myth' when I spent 6 hours searching for two loose sibes on Good Friday. Thankfully both back safe and sound now but the outcome, as all sibe owners know, could have been very different. Both dogs trained to recall from pups.

Take care.

Seoniad. xxx

And what, "newbies" are not allowed to voice their opinions?? :?

My Basenjis are on lead only (we are Hound group but also Spitz), I would love to be able to let them off but they are unreliable, would chase anything that moved including bikes, cars and trains and joggers.

We also have a lot of livestock around us.

Some B's are let off lead successfully, some are not, some that have been are no longer with us.

Also for their safety as there is a lot of people out shooting at times, not always legally either. Not to mention the scramble bikes!

I would like to be able to let them run in an enclosed space but there is nothing around here so a large garden will have to do.

Do you think it is fair to challenge what people have learnt from years of experience, time and dedication to the breed, by telling them they are wrong, when they have only owned the breed for a matter of months?

I also think you will find some it is suggested by some sighthound people that they remain very cautious about where they allow their dogs off leads, most especially Afghans and Salukis I believe?

Whippets and Greys (I believe) are more sprinters than endurance runners. Which must also be taken into account.

you arent being told you cant voice your opnions but when youre challenging people who have owned and known the breed and how they work for years, know of the accidents that have happened, they dont particularly appreciate being told that they have been doing it wrong for all these years, and should just let them loose.

i meant newbies to the breed not the forum

Who said they were wrong? I certainly didn't. I was making observations and voicing my opinion based on owning a similar group of breeds. Sighthounds very often get the same "they must be kept on lead" talk to and i don't believe they must. Which is why i asked the question i did about Sibes/Mals.

As i wrote above, i mentioned nothing of the kind.

In My post I asked a question - do you think it is fair?

I have not heard it about whippets or Greys (with possible exceptions - but I have about Afghans and Salukis. With Good reason.
I also mentioned the differences what the breed is bred for (ie - sprint vs Endurance) do you feel this might have an effect?

Do i think what is fair? That my post has been interpreted as challenging and telling others they're "wrong"?

I don't know about Afghans, but i do know a Saluki and Borzoi that both get off lead exercise without issue. The Borzoi actually having a very solid recall.

As for the differences in sprint vs endurance. It doesn't really make a difference IMO. The point i was trying to make towards the bottom of my original post was that ANY breed or type of dog can run off in pursuit of something and breed doesn't come into it.

My original question was do they have a higher prey drive than sighthounds? It was a genuine question and unfortunately everyone has been quick to jump on the defencive and not actually take the time to explain whether they do and why that is. When i looked into the Siberian Husky years ago i remember being confused as to why they had such a high prey drive when they wasn't bred to hunt. I was surprised to find out that the "off lead" subject was such a big deal within the breed and the more and more i heard from owners the more i decided they're totally not the breed for me. Can anyone educate me as to why they're such a "challenging" breed then? What is it about them that makes them different, than say, an ex racing Greyhound when they spot prey?


ETA: Ok, so just seeing the poll results i see the majority of people DO allow their Spitz breeds off lead, with quite a majority doing so in unenclosed spaces. I guess that answers my main question, that some are indeed ok off lead. Which is what i thought in the first place.

You should remember the poll results aren't going to be representative of just sibes/mals/CSV's and created breeds of they same "type".

The poll is for spitz breed owners - now I own two types of spitz - one in the pastoral group used primarily for herding and farm yard work ... they are fine of the lead and mine have always been let off in unenclosed spaces. My other breed are a utility breed - bred as watch dogs to be heard when barking over a mile a way - now whilst I let a couple of them off the lead there is one who will never go off her lead not because of a pray drive but because she's prone to going selectively deaf and simply walking away to find something that interests her.

So on the poll I would indicate that I let my spitz breeds off lead as I do with the majority of them - however, if i had a sibe/mal/etc I would follow the advice of those experienced in the breed itself, as I may well have owned spitz breeds for over 15 years I haven't owned one of those breeds.

(I have friends with Elkhounds, the majority of which don't let theirs off in an unenclosed space)

I think I understand your question... I am not a breed expert, but I do have a sight hound and a husky cross malamute at home and here's how I would interpret it...

Pharaoh would chase after a rabbit, or anything that moves and so he has to be kept on lead if we are near a road. But through the years of owning him, I have come to know how far he can go and in what time and how far he will pursue his prey before coming back. Also as soon as he has made his kill, he has killed a few bunnies in his time, he will bring them back to me. We have worked on recall and I can call him away even in mid chase. He will always return, because his instinct is to chase, kill and return with the prey.

Kismet also wants to chase the rabbits and when she was younger I allowed her offlead without worry. I had not read this forum and didn't know there was any advice to the contrary. The difference would be that she would chase the rabbit to the burrow, then go into forage mode, hunting and sniffing for more.. All this time, not even looking up. If it was a well populated run I could always catch her and pull her away. But if not, then she would be off for the next one. With never a look to me nor any squeaky toy nor anything I could bring... ... There is a 'wildness' inside Kismet (Tacky, but hard to describe any other way)... If Pharaoh is out of my sight he wants to return, he needs me.. Kismet thinks I need her, but if I have not kept up or am left behind well that's not her fault, she is ready to go feral at a moments notice, she believes in fending for herself and when she has caught a pigeon, she ran away from me to eat it alone and would not give it up without a struggle.

All breeds can catch the scent of prey and run for it.. But most and certainly all hunting breeds will want to bring this back to their pack. I read somewhere that the 'original' Huskies were left for much of the year to hunt and fend for themselves, so their instinct is to catch and kill for themselves then come back when the prey is scarce ...

Kismet does get offlead time in enclosed spaces and she has very good recall. But she still has a wildness about her, she recalls when she is ready and never when she is busy, or doing something else and never if she has spotted something she wants to go and look at, then she will cast a look over her shoulder as if to say, "follow me this will be AWESOME" then will take off. When I catch up with her at the fence she is never remorseful, just trots up as if to say "I knew you were following.. where now?"... She never worries the way Pharaoh does.

Does that help?

I also have a Samoyed.. A herding type Spitz, she has been off lead all her life.. we have never had issues with prey drive or recall...

I an always very careful where my ni's are let off lead. This was proven to be right today at training. We trained in a different place which had cows in the next field. Sacha who competes in both obedience and agility showed no interest in the cows until half way through her agility round the cows decided to run away. As soon as they started to move she desperately wanted to chase and totally went deaf. Luckily she couldn't get through the fence but it took 3 of us to catch her as she was trying extremely hard to find a way through.

Sacha is a dog who 99% of the time will always be reliable when offlead. It is that 1% that I always have to be aware of and if things had been different could have easily have had a dead dog today.

It only takes a cat, rabbit or as I today found out running herd of cows and all training goes totally out of the window.

Callan the BSD on the other hand didn't even see the cows. He was totally focused on what he was doing and his toys.

And you seriously think northern breeds have the monopoly on high prey drive? I know of a GWP that killed sheep at every opportunity it got, doesn't mean every gundog should be kept on a lead. I don't own the breed, but I find it very hard to believe that a small group of breeds can be labelled a certain way when at the end of the day, they're all domesticated dogs. Breeds will always have certain characteristcs, but each dog is an individual in it's own right.

I do think it's a bit of a myth, I know many people who have Sibes and Mals and have allowed them off lead for many years without problems. Northern breeds may be more susceptible to going deaf due to having a high prey drive, but then so are many other breeds. I find it hard to buy that you can give an individual dog a label just because it is of a certain breed. It's my opinion whether you "oldies" like it or not!

So now you're no longer allowed an opinion if it goes against the grain? Sorry, but that's just ridiculous!

I've never said I think one person is wrong and one person is right, but I certainly don't believe ALL northern breeds should be kept on lead judging by what I've witnessed and the people I've met. Just because I have less experience doesn't suddenly mean I'm not allowed an opinion.

Also, all of the Lurchers and Greys I've met round here are allowed off lead without problems.

As are many here - again - I would want to look at the breed as a whole, not one specific aspect.

You asked if it was fair to question some people who have more experience, which to me means you don't think it is fair.? As far as I'm concerned everyone is allowed an opinion regardless of their experience as it's a free country! I think it's more healthy to question those with a lot of experience as being challenged can make people think twice, rather than just continuing to perpetuate the myth.

The majority of northern breed owners state that the breeds in question should NEVER be allowed off lead, that is evident on this thread.

I'm not disrespecting anyone, I've never said anyone is wrong, but I certainly think it's bizarre to assume that every dog within a certain breed will behave a certain way. There are many, many breeds out there bred to have a high prey drive, yet live a life off lead. I think it's very easy to become wrapped up in legends and myth rather than actually looking at facts and reality. Only my opinion of course, which may or may not be allowed?

I don't have any experience of Husky apart from the ones I have met recently which were 2 not very good encounters unfortunately!

One I was on the heath and a Husky cross came after Cherry (on-lead as dog reactive to large dogs and partly sighted). The Husky cross was trying to have a go at Cherry but fortunately a friend was there who was stopping it reaching her with her walking stick. The owner has this dog off-lead and has no control over it whatsoever as I have seen it lots of times wandering a long way away from its owner and not responding to him.

The other occasion I was in the middle of a popular dog-walking park in Norwich and there was no-one about within eyesight. Suddenly a Husky appeared next to Cherry and she was going ape! I had to body block it and shout at it loudly to get it to move away. I was not happy.

Based on this I think certainly some Huskies should be kept on-lead. I wouldn't care to damn them all as being bad with recall so it does depend on the dog.

What I actually said was 'do you think it is fair' not 'is it fair'.

I was asking someone to voice an opinion. Subtle difference and possibly one overlooked.

I agree everyone has the right to an opinion, which is why I asked the question the way I did.


Again - you focus on the prey drive - along with this (IMO) you have to take the rest of the breed characteristics - possibly you then have a very different outlook.
My BC has a huge prey drive - one farmer commented he thought she was more of a sheep worrier than a herder - but her other characteristics mean that she can be (relatively) easily trained not to do this. Zeff on the other hand - is a totally different kettle of fish. But I would say they both have high prey drives. Does that mean that they can be classed the same?

If it's not your opinion then why ask the question? Such questions asked more often than not stem from our own belief systems ime. Do you think it is fair? Do you really believe people with more experience should be bowed down to? I personally don't think experience is the be all and end all, many a person with decades of experience have found themselves proved wrong. The best way to learn is to question and reflect every single day on your own beliefs and actions, by yourself and others.

Prey drive is one aspect I have mentioned because it's the aspect many working/gundogs have, but it doesn't mean I haven't considered other aspects. I'm not so deluded or closed minded to assume that every dogs prey drive is the same given the fact they've been bred for different tasks.

Certain breeds will be susceptible to certain traits because of their breeding, but this doesn't automatically mean every single dog in said breed will act this way. Each dog is an individual in it's own right, this will always be my opinion whether it's popular or not.

I would agree to a point, but humans have done a flipping good job of tampering with the genetics of a lot of dogs.
I would certainly not suggest someone get a collie on the off chance it will not want to herd!

I've never said those with the most experience are perpetuating a myth, but I do feel that if people continually trot it out then it'll will become an automatic response. All too often people become very complacent and believe everything they see and hear, just because someone told them so.

The reason I don't believe ALL northern breeds have to spend their lives on a lead is based on the experiences I've had. I've met many people who have off lead northern breeds with no problem (although this may well be because they've worked at off lead training as a pre cursor, as opposed to staunch on lead supporters who won't have don't such training, hence the questioning of the myth), also I don't believe that any particular breed of dog is special. Yes northern breeds may have had to fend for themselves, but that was so long ago that it isn't really relevant anymore to the point where it will cause them to run off in search of food. They may well need special consideration (which I've witnessed myself), but how many breeds don't need special consideration based on what they've been bred to do?

Greyhounds are bred to hunt down small animals, and yet there are many, many retired Greyhounds that live happily with small furries. Some won't, but that doesn't automatically mean the whole breed should be labelled non furrie friendly.

I knew someone with a show Cocker who could never be let off the lead as his recall was none existent, but that doesn't suddenly mean that every show Cocker should be confined to a lead.

These are the points I'm trying to make.