Siberian Husky off lead walking??? Controversial

http://www.huskycolors.com/genetic.html

this site is pretty good on genetics for coat color
very complex

Sorry, I'm a bit behind on this went out last night to yoga felt so relaxed etc when I got back wanted it to stay that way .
Phew, what a lot of pages to read thru!
Notice that Anne has not posted a list of refs for me to do some research into her claims of physical and mental harm inflicted on Huskies if you don't walk them off a lead in unsecure areas. I guess it's not going to happen But in all seriousness, it was a genuine request, I would very much like to read it and decide if I'm being cruel.
Oh and way back (can't be bothered to find it) there was a point made by Anne that not all Huskies are prey driven and kill furry animals, maybe that's so - as I pointed out in one of my original posts mine is - to date he has killed 2 cats, the only reason he hasn't killed many other cute furry animals is because he is so prey driven I would never let him off a lead where there was any risk of it happening, which means here in the country pretty much everywhere, that doesn't have a 6 ft high secure fence. IMHO I doubt very much he would then be 100% reliable to recall in mid hunt, esp as he goes off like a rocket when running.

mozzy, ann did very kindly invite the american guy who lets his '13' off lead (though can only actually find 9 dogs on his site, and one of those is MISSING),
Link back on P.69 I think.

Thanks - wasn't really the kind of research I had in mind .

Sorry, don't want to go too off topic but got to comment on tht site. It's been around a long time. Some of the content is good. Edit: Was a bit off-the-mark to begin with, but now very out of date with new data from DNA analysis.

do you have some of the newer research? or links to it? Something Im really interested in
I agree sites not perfect but it gives a good overview... things go out of date fast in this field dont they?

Most of the research is going on here -

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

thanks for that link!, fascinating site (especially to someone whos obsessed with piebald sibes)

Sorry can you point out where Anne has said it is cruel if you dont walk them off lead in an unsecure area please. I had taken her posts to read that these dogs need some sort of either exercise off lead or worked in some way and not just lead walked not that they had to have an unsecured area.

Which from some of the responses on here from Husky owners they totally agree with. See Im confused again, is it wrong to only walk a Huskey on lead?

as Ive just had pointed out to me by a friend, there has been little mention on this thread of actual LAW relating to this matter, so here it is:

so personal veiws aside, are you SURE you are not breaking your local authorities laws and bylaws by having your dog off-lead? and actually advocating the breaking of the law by saying the dog should be allowed off-lead?

theres a sobering thought for you

Sorry to drag the discussion backwards, but I've just been trawling back through some of the earlier discussions of the past few days and I feel there is a need to clarify a couple of points.
In an earlier discussion,someone referred to SHWA(UK)'s attitude towards off-lead huskies. This is simple. We do not advocate letting huskies go off lead in unenclosed spaces, but we do advocate owners training their dogs to recall.
They also referred to a discussion on the SHWA(UK) Forum where several "members" said they let their dogs go off lead. They were confusing the SHWA(UK) Forum (which is purely welfare focussed) with the DreamCatcher Forum (which is a general Siberian Husky focussed forum characterised by a membership of 400+ made up of Siberian owners with often widely diverging views about a whole range of issues). There has never been a thread discussing the off-lead issue on the SHWA(UK) Forum. There have been several on the Dreamcatcher Forum and just like on Dogsey, the opinions of individual contributors do not reflect the views/policies of the Forum owners - it is a free debating area where any views may be articulated as long as it is done so politely and logically.

It would be helpful if people ensured that they were a bit more accurate when attributing views to individuals or organisations.

By the way, the advice given in the breed section of Dogsey is spot on!
"The exercise requirements of the Siberian Husky are considerable. For hundreds of years he has been bred to run ... and run ... and run, for mile upon mile, usually in a straight line. This is the reason that Husky experts advise that all exercise should be carried out on-lead or in a very secure, well-fenced area, or, best of all, harnessed to a sled or a wheeled rig. Daily on-lead walking, running, hiking, biking, also will keep him fit and happy in your company. Allowing free running exercise in an unenclosed environment poses the risk of the dog being lost, run over, or shot by a farmer. If you are unable or unwilling to provide a great deal of controlled exercise, including mentally stimulating activities, then the Siberian is not the right breed for you. "

Mick

I have 3 Siberian huskies and would NEVER EVER let them off lead in an un enclosed space .......ever and mines do have a great recall.........but just would never trust it in an open space .........as Rose said at the beggining of this thread somewhere.............the hunt instict kicks in and they go deaf !!! my dogs get to run and run in an enclosed space..yeah............so it keeps them happy..........and me xxxxxx :smt002

Spot, Anne wrote the following:

"Huskies can, with dedicated training, be trusted to go off lead. Which is needed for their physical and, if not more important, mental well being."

Sorry not sure which page it's on, it's "the trusted to go off lead" , ie "trusted" which implies we are not talking about safe enclosed areas otherwise you wouldn't need to trust them would you? - and so it affects their physical and mental wellbeing.
Those who've responded and said they have an enclosed area, Anne has come back and replied in her opinion it's not enough (unless I've got that wrong), and no wonder they get bored and start sniffing around the fence looking for a way out.
At the end of the day IMHO the best/safest thing for a Husky is:
(1) off lead in safe enclosed areas,
(2) working/running in harness as often as possible (bike, rig - whatever or cani-cross), they were bred to pull, and
(3) also on lead walking when not in safe enclosed areas (as you can't run them all the time), but taking 2 leads including an 8 meter flexi lead when in fields and woodland areas (and beaches), so I'm not just talking about walking on a short lead in the local park.

Just to confirm this is only MHO ;-) .

Yes Mozzy, I took Anne's post in the same way and you are correct, no trust would be needed if the dog couldnt escape.
Dawn.

I do disagree slightly with the statement highllighted above, only because time has shown me that no place is 100% safe for a sibe. I know that sounds really, really silly but unfortunately is true to an extent. Our dog yard is about say 90 feet sq, with 7 foot mesh fencing on two side, a byre along a third side and a wall and part of the bothy on the other side. The day we moved the dogs out from temporary housing into their kennelling within the byre, we let each kennl out to play - one kennel of our top working dogs came out at a gallop and literally ran to the bothy wall and walked up it and over the top (one dog did that part) :-o arrgh all that hard work sorting fencing out and we had to start again with 2 foot overhang all the way round. Only to find another trying very hard 2 weeks later, to squash themselves to about an inch thick to get between the bottom of the yard gate and the concrete underneath ;-)

Don't ya just have to love them for their perseverance ;-)

Anyway I do agree with what you say mozzy, just wanted to let people know that that 100% dog proof enclosure isn't always 100% to them

I am new to this forum, but felt i had to add to this discussion. I have 6 huskies & would never let them off lead in an unsecure area. I got my 1st husky from a very reputable breeder who also sold one to a police dog handler, despite her pleas not to let said dog off lead he insisted she was prefectly obedient & trained her to a very high level. For 2 years he trusted her but one day she just switched off & just kept running she was lost for 3 days had travelled 43 miles . He was very lucky to get her back safe as she had crossed major roads. He admitted she was totally different to the shepherds he was use to training & no longer lets her run free. Please don't risk it!

Thanks

I take your point Grindys, I was thinking how we would assume our dogs would be safe in an enclosed area .
But I'm sure that's not what Anne meant when she stated about "trusting" them off lead ;-) .

We have concrete around the bottom edge of our field and a foot and a half inverted overhang too! 3 sides are covered THICKLY with holly bushes, so thick you cannot see through one side at all!! EVERY effort must be made to keep our dogs safe, free running in a public area is not the way to go with a Husky, its treading on thin ice, and when that ice breaks, its the dog that will suffer.
dawn.

I had promised myself that I would no longer post on this thread as sadly it has become a slanging match but I just had to clear a few things up;

I did NOT invite onqsiberians to this forum, all you had to do is ask me rather than jump to conclusions and make accusations. I am not the sort of person that goes running to find others to back me up! I can fight my own battles thank you.

No mozzy I have said countless times that there is nothing wrong with walking a husky off lead only in enclosed areas, there is also nothing wrong with a husky only being exercise by means of huskies sports. What is wrong is to walk a husky on lead only!

No I haven’t bother to look for research backing up my claims that it is cruel to only walk a husky on lead, this is my belief and to be honest if people can not see that a breed as active as a husky needs more than just on lead walks well I’m afraid (sorry I don’t mean to be rude) but that is there problem not mine.

Do you honestly think that every single Husky will kill other animals, I can’t understand how you don’t see dogs as individuals regardless of their breed. There are plenty of Huskies that live happily with other animals. Yes there are Huskies that given the chance would kill another animal just like there are individual dogs in any breed that would do the same. If an owner has an animal aggressive dog then it is the owners responsibility to ensure the dog doesn't kill another animal! As for exercising an animal aggressive Husky (or any breed) they should be muzzled when out and (again like I’ve said before) kept on a longline, the length of the longline dependant on the severity of the aggression.

Thank you Spot, but it seems that some people are reading my posts and twisting what I’ve said, I don’t think that’ll change, but thank you anyway at least I know it’s not me

Just so you know, it’s only illegal to exercise a dog off lead in parks that stipulate they can’t go off lead, by law sign posts have to be in place. Or if an official has personally asked you to put your dog on lead you can not then let them off even if it is a dog friendly park i.e. one that allows dogs to be exercised off lead

No Mick, what I said was there are some members of both the SHCGB and SHWA that allow their own Huskies off lead. I also said there was a thread on your own forum (dreamcatcher) where some members admitted to allowing their own huskies to be exercised off lead and they weren’t talking about off lead in secure areas

Yes you have got that wrong, how many times do I have to say it, there is nothing wrong with exercising a husky off lead in an enclosed area i.e enclosed park, enclosed field etc. There is nothing wrong with exercising a husky by working them, being involved in husky sports, What is wrong is only walking a husky on lead. Or imo just in a tennis court.

I know for a fact that trained huskies can be safely exercised off lead in unenclosed parks, fields etc, I have been training huskies (and other breeds) to go off lead for many years, I understand most on here haven’t but then that would be because you don’t believe Huskies can be trained a reliable and trustworthy enough recall to be exercised off lead, so why would you. Of course there will be individual huskies that can’t be trusted to go off completely i.e. without a longline attached, just like there will be examples/individuals of other breeds that also can’t be trusted, each dog is an individual.

I am not the only person that believes this as you well know.
Just an example of someone else who also agrees a suitably trained husky can be safely exercised off lead

From the wildcries website

I think we will just have to agree to disagree :wink: