Sappala husky Discussions

This is such an age old argument on type. Go back and look at the pic of Seppala.....his dogs were moderate. In my opinion there are far too many people breeding, primarily in the US far too heavy boned dogs. They have no legs, too much bone and too deep/wide chests. These dogs do not and can not move properly when in harness. I do fear that this is the way some of the UK breeders are going. The dogs look "showy and flashy" in the ring and look great to alot of the allround judges. But their construction is wrong. Look back at thw Westminster show and you will see what I mean.

I agree with Mick when he says we need to look at the 40-60 range in the breed, anything outside of that and we endanger the breed developement. Tracey I think your dogs look great and would expect them to do well in both ring and harness in the UK. Sadly they probably wouldn't get a look in in the US or Canada or most of Europe unless under a Breed Specialist. But then again I would take a shortlist or a placing under a Specialist over an all-rounder any day, (just my personal opinion folks, I do respect knowledgable all-rounders as well and have shown under both in the past). Looking around the dog scene at the minute we see alot of dogs that are "finished" at 12-18 months. I think that is frightening for the sibe world. This being a slow maturing breed they run the risk of being overdone before they even mature! These are the ones that will never make a good working dog (IMO). One thing to consider when looking at dogs in the UK is coat. The dogs here I feel do not grow the coats to the same thickness as in colder countries so will appear lighter then the heavier/thicker coated counterparts. Gets your hands on a dog then decide whats underneath. Construction is everything!

Interesting thread.

This photo has been on my favourites for some time. I'm intrigued because they are labelled as huskies, but look nothing like what I imagine a husky to look. The lead dog is very greyhoundy to my eyes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2008/jun/10/eyewitness?picture=331962628

Hi Red Collar,

They are completely different, the ones in your link are Alaskan Huskies not Siberian. They are generally bred with "hound" type qualities as you noted to make them run faster. I'm sure there is someone on here that has more knowledge of them though so may help out here???

Thanks Fluffypawz, I didn't realise there was so much difference (not being very well up on husky types). The lead dog in the link stood out as being very houndy to my eyes when I saw it in the paper.

It's an interesting example of form following function when performance, rather than appearance, is the driving force.

The thing about Alaskan Huskies is that they have been bred purely for race performance so looks and "type" are irrelevant. Some Alaskan Huskies look almost indistinguishable from Siberians, others look much more houndy (although to be strictly accurate it should be "gundoggy" as the most common non-sibe used in the mix is GSP).
Siberians are intended to be sled dogs which can pull a lightly laden sled in sub-arctic conditions, over vast distances (up to 100 miles a day) day after day. Because of this, aspects of their bodies which might be forgiven in modern racing sled dogs, which race in booties, coats, eat high-energy foods and sleep on straw, come into their own in a working Siberian. Coat is the most obvious aspect - many Alaskans simply wouldn't survive a winter's work (such as the Chukchi were forced to undertake) as they would not have sufficient coat. Similarly, in a working Chukchi dog, good feet were essential........... the same could be said for many other aspects which might (wrongly) be regarded as purely cosmetic. In a Siberian Husky, nothing is cosmetic and the breed's good looks are a lucky coincidence.

Mick

No problem red collar!

Sadly it sems that appearance is taking the forefront now a days in some of the worlds show rings as some of the dogs winning top honours couldn't perform inharness to any great effect. There will be those that say their dogs work, but do they??? Do they work or excersice? How effective are they? I know the UK sibes take crisism over short distance racing but properly trained, can the run long distace? I would say the top winning/racing kennels could. Unfortunately alot of people don't see that.

You can easily check most of the top show winning kennels last year and cross reference the races and find the ones where form DOES follow function. It's interesting.

Hi,
I agree with everything MickB said.

It might help to understand though to also add that in America they have split to two types, show and working. In the UK the standard is for a dual purpose dog, so moderate is what would fit this best. We must remember that the climate in the UK is not really suitable for the Sibe to meet its full potential for distance, let alone finding long enuogh trails without needing to keep opening gates or cross roads, without going round in circuits!!

As with many breeds individuals then have their own idea of what is best and gradually try to breed to that, and if this is allowed to continue the breed gradually moves away from the correct breed standard. The breed standard then gets changed and you can end up with completely different looking dogs, see the German Shepherd as and example.

Over the last 10 years or so I have seen the breed slide first one way to the leaner finer types, then to the more compact show types but it has always been pulled back to the more moderate. I hope this continues as it would be a shame in 10 years time to find the beautiful dogs I fell in love with completely changed. There is already enough movement in the breed standard for everyone to have dogs sufficiently different to please.

I think it is an absolute scandal as to what they have done to our breed in America by splitting it into work - show! I can not understand how anyone involved in the breed that really cares about the dogs themselves and not what they can win in the show ring would do such a thing. IMO it is money orientated as there is big money to be won in America. Gladly not here. I feel people respect the breed for what it is and not what they can make it into in the UK. I do hope that people/ breeders do not follow suit though as often happens and ruin the sibe here. Watching around the rings over the last few years we have seen some kennels go towards the "showier type" but I do hope they go no further as I feel it would do the breed no benefit in the UK. I am actually aware that some "show" kennels are actually refining their lines as they do not want to go heavier, they have brought in working lines into their breeding programs now realizing what would be best for the breed and their kennel. Some of the USA and Canadaian sibe folk have said splitting the breed into show v working type worst thing to happen to the breed and I would have to agree.

I don't think the problem lies only with the "show" side. The key word throughout the breed standard of the Siberian Husky is "moderate" and, unfortunately, people on both sides of the debate have been guilty of forgetting this. Extremes on either side are equally wrong and damaging to the breed.
One way of ensuring that the breed maintains itself as a working, endurance sled dog (as opposed to a short-distance sprint racing sled dog) would be the introduction of a "working brevet" like they have in some European countries. For example, if dogs were unable to claim championship status until they had proved their ability to work in harness over, say, 30 miles in one day, then extremes in the show ring might start to disappear.
Just a thought!

Mick

That is a good point Mick but unfortunately a lot of breeders probably wouldn't have the time to train up to a 30 mile distance because of work commitments ect...

Hi good to see you on here Mick

Hi Kylie!

Mick

I agree that both sides are at fault when it comes to beeding to extremes.
The idea of a working brevet is well and good if you have the time, money, resources to do it. I don't know of many people that could achieve it. Their dogs are fantastic dogs and no doubt with the training could do it but as I say, how many people can spend that time training as I certainly would not run my dogs unless they were trained to that distance. Equally there are very few places that would allow that distance to be run??? If there are than I'd like to know where? So, in the UK should we stop our dogs becomming champions because of circumstance??? If a dog is constucted properly than it should be capable of running any distance it is trained to run surely.