Questions (What are Northern Inuits like as pets) Questions

Yes I have already answered your comments about hip scoring. I do believe HD can be common in all large breeds and therefore a routine test on dogs used for breeding and not a problem in the breed as already said.

I must have missed the posts about mals as I did not see that. As much as I like the breed I would not imagine they are a breed for a newcomer to dogs as the OP has stated it would be her first dog. I would also be interested to know if they are an easy dog to keep in a one dog home.

Of course, it's not present in all breeds, only some.

I know of many people who have had Mals as a first dog, without problem, it depends on the person I guess.

Why would they not be easy as a single dog ? Maybe I've missed something. That applies to any breed surely !

Was this in reply to me?
There was a post in between so not sure.

So some breeds have not had cases of CHD?

Seems to me that knowledge of hip scoring as standard could lead anyone not as such a breeder to not see CHD as a potential health concern for a particular breed.
If they go purely on their knowledge that scoring was undertaken as standard, and no personal experience of CHD in the breed.

Yes sorry it was in reply to you, I should have quoted.

Only some breeds suffer with HD, many breeds have never had cases of it at all. Some breeds that have hip scored, stopped because all the scores were coming out 0/0 (Will look for the link again, it was on my old PC !), so not every breed scores as there is no need.

The point I was making is that if a condition is known in a breed, why state that there are no health concerns, when there clearly is ?

With NI's, it's not a case of scoring 'just in case' so there aren't any problems in the future. ALL 3 of the breeds that created the NI have HD, and as it has not yet been erradicated in those breeds, it's safe to say it has been passed on to the NI, as it's a Hereditary condition, some of those breeds being higher than others ! Therefore NI's have HD.

Mainly large breeds suffer with it, but it is also known in smaller breeds too like Cocker spaniels and a few others.

I was under the impression that all but the vsmall breeds (under 25Ibs adult) have had instances of CHD.

I agree all 3 contributing breeds to the NI have suffered (as opposed to "have HD") and the possibility therefor exists and is likely. Therefor NI's could have HD

I think it a little unfair to state that anyone was hiding the fact of this when by there own admition they knew of hip scoring as a standard practice but not of HD in the breed through personal experience.

Giant/large breeds do suffer more but no breed or X breed is safe. But ANY breed scoring constant 0/0 is superb and a sign of very clever and ethical breeding. Doesnt mean that it wont occur tho, it isnt only genetic is it?

Not always no.

Unfortunately not.

ANY score higher than 0/0 means that the dog has 'a degree' of HD. Most dogs with HD in the course of their life, will never display signs of discomfort, as it may only be minor. It' not that the originating breeds 'have suffered', they originating breeds 'have it' IN the breeds, therefore it is passed on.

As I said it's hereditary, so to crossbreed 3 breeds with HD, then expect the result to be without is somewhat niave.

They only admitted to knowledge of hip scoring after I questioned them saying that there were no known health issues in the breed Callum ! Up to that point, they both stated there were no major health issues (its in my previous post).

No, it can be environmental too, so over erxercising a puppy, for example, can lead to them having it later in life, or overfeeding a puppy to gain extra growth (as some people think it will !) can also put enough strain on the joints to affect them.

So most breeds other than the vsmall have had record of CHD? Or most have but not recurring breed specific problem? Or most havent at all?

Certain dogs from the originating breeds or indeed certain NI's that score 0/0 DO NOT have it. Therefor the situation is the breed COULD suffer from it not that it WILL just because its been recorded in the breed history or indeed that particular line.

It CAN be hereditary it is not a definite, I dont expect and I dont think any other posters in this thread expected the particular breeding of the NI's to produce dogs with no possible CHD.

I know next to nil of the NI as a breed. And as an outsider reading the thread the posters who had answered and did not mention hip scoring did not mention it as they did not think that CHD was a health concern specific to the NI, only that hip scoring was common practice for ALL breeds.
As my previous post suggests.

I dont personally know of any dogs in the originating breeds that have a 0/0 score, therefore to cross them and have any NI's with a 0/0 would be extremely doubtful !

Lines are irrelevant, as NI's are from 3 originating breeds that all 'Have' HD, regardless of how much you pick the words or possibilities apart. See the BVA's own studies regarding it. Anything over 0/0 is classes as HAVING a degree of HD, and if it is not herditary, then please explain how every single dog in all 3 breeds has a degree of it ?

The BVA seem to think it is, and I am inclined to believe them :smt001

Of course it's a problem specific to the breed when they are testing for it !

Whether it's common practise or not, the OP asked for any health concerns and was told there weren't any ;-)

Tbh I find it incredibly difficult to believe that you think NO dog of any of the 4 breeds have not got CHD. You think every dog of the 4 breeds has a degree of CHD?

It is fair to say tho that it was posted that there WERE health concerns namely: "undescended testicles. Some also do not do well on a complete diet which can cause upset stomachs."

No point naming some concerns to deliberately not mention CHD. another reason I dont believe it was deliberately left out.

Well I shall have to bow to your superior knowledge, although I am agreeing to differ in opinion.

There are some, I said I don't know personally of any, not the same thing ;-)

If there are a few without HD, good, but as Hip scoring is relatively new to NI's, I doubt only those 0/0 clear dogs were used ! So I think it's fair to say that dogs with a degree of HD were used in the beginning, therefore passing it on, as it is hereditary.

Who knows.........maybe because there are no tests to detect the above mentioned, but Hip scoring is expensive !

well put werewolf, that was exactly what I was trying to say in my earlier post, but it didn't come out quite right.

If the answers given had been..

"NI are tested for HD at present and there have a been a few people that have had problems with their dogs fitting and also undescended testicles"

Then this wouldn't have got to this stage

I DO NOT breed my dogs and have no intention to BUT that said if someone asked me what health tests Mals need I would KNOW>. because they are my chosen breed and I made damn sure I knew what I needed to know so I could ask the right questions before I got a pup!!!
I also made sure I knew the mean score aswell!!

If you go into getting a pup without this knowledge and you are sold a pup with high hip scoring parents because you "didn't know" or "aren't going to breed" then its your own fault for not researching enough!!

And your own fault if you end up with a 5yr old dog who can hardly walk etc

Louise13 could you please let me know the link that gives information on fitting in NI's as this is something I have not seen.

Thank you

Ok, don't want to bicker so for the sake of anymore arguments here is my 2 pennies worth:

Northern Inuit Health Issues:

Northern Inuit's are screened for hip displaycia, all breeders using dogs born after 1st Jan 2006 are required to have their dogs hip scored before being bred from. The NI BMS is approximatly 14 to my knowledge.

Northern Inuit's are not required to be eye tested, however given that all the founder breeds are known to have eye related issues I personally have had my dogs eyes tested.

From what I can tell, undescended testicles in males is a common problem, as are sensitive tummies.


Now please, lets all stop bickering

There are 4 Mals with perfect hip scores (0/0 - no sign of hip dysplacia) that have been scored under the BVA scheme, however these dogs wouldn't have been used in the creation of the NI (most are far too young anyway). What I do find interesting is that one was scored at 10 years of age and still had a 0/0 score.

This is a good point Lou. I don't breed, yet I still know what health issues affect my chosen breeds. I made sure I knew these before purchasing my dogs to try and minimise the risk of them having any problems.

Thank you

I would like to see them tested for eye problems given the fact that all three of the founder breeds have issues with their eyes. The cost of an eye test is minimal so I wonder if the NIS would consider adding this to their CoE?

Well going on from the above posts where it is mentioned I took it that the previous people who mentioned it knew where it was..I also don't know where the undescended testicle issue is either..All I did was encapsulate the problems that have been mentioned..

Personally for me anyone who has created a breed should be testinmg all stock for all diseases associated with the parent breeds used, not just pick and choose which ones to test for. What I'm trying to say is that NI's should be tested for everything that each of the individual parent breeds are tested for and this shouldn't stop until such time as a DNA test is avaialble which means a particular disease can be bred out.
I'm stunned that it wasn't until 2006 that they decided on compulsory hip scoring! According to the BVA report not one NI was scored prior to that or less than 10 had been. Even Utonagans and Labradoodles got on the BVA stats!
Becky