Perfect stafford - what would your ideal Staffordshire Bull Terrier look like? Discussions

To finish....even with 'smilies' I think its hard to explain sometimes without being misunderstood.

What I never understood is that if they changed the standard for greater balance surely the law of averages would tell you if you drop the height but not the weight your not going to end up with as well a balanced dog as before.

Just thought this may add a new dynamic to the debate here are some quotes from the original dogmen involved in the Stafford years ago about what they thought of the way the breed was headed. I really think this says it all these guys talk with more authority than I ever could. Sad that the breed they fought to get recognised has obviously changed into something they did not visualise..


Thoughts of some old timers & founding SBT Club members on the modern type Staffords:

(Joe Mallen)

...You ask me what I think of the present-day dogs and the old timers. Well, as regards the new standard, I am sure they are bringing them too low to the ground. Give me a staffordshire about 17 ins. at the shoulder. He must be on the alert, strong, active, a very hard and strong muzzle with clean lips. He should have a good heart and plenty of guts, but you can not find this out in the show ring. I can go as far as to say that eighty per cent of staffordshires today are cowards...

(H N Beilby)


...if the 16 ins. is the popular height limit let us keep to it, and if the corresponding recomended weight of 37lbs. is made of bone and muscle ,well and good, but the low built, fat and puffy dog of this weight is not typical, and to perpetuate such a type is doing a real dis-service to the breed and is getting further and further away from the whole "inspiration" of the Staffordshire, and can only lead to the producing of bulldogs with long muzzles.


(Jack Barnard)

...I do without a doubt like to see a stafford within the essential spirit and characteristics of the breed, but I’m afraid and I will go as far as to say, the majority of our present day specimens are lacking the essential "guts", this having been forgotten in the quest for so-called type. I am not advocating a raving maniac, but I do maintain and uphold that a staffordshire with no spirit is like an angel without wings...

...guts having been forgotten and a thing of the past, what looks more daft than a silly Stafford, especially to one who knows Staffords.

...I do maintain and uphold that to see a Stafford in the ring crawling on it´s belly, utterly terrified, is enough to make a true sportsman utterly disgusted, so I do appeal to all owners and breeders to try and maintain the true essential in the Stafford, namely spirit.

Since our standard was drawn up in 1935 some has been revised whether to the good or detriment of the breed I refuse to say...
(John F Gordon)

As any breeder knows it is comparatively simple to breed dogs with given physical characteristics, but it is far from easy to maintain correct temperament if the medium for propagating these desired mental factors is missing...

...and he added, most succintly, placing his hand to where, I presume, lay his heart. "If a Stafford hasn´t got it here - he´s no Stafford, an´mark my words, laad, that´s what they´re aimimg for - a Stafford without a true heart"...I am guite sure we are not deliberately aiming for anything of the sort, the fact remains that we are nevertheless in danger of getting there...

...let us breed as closely as possible to this prized characteristic, and hold on to the real Staffordhire spirit as long as we are able...

could someone please post a picture ov jim the dandy.... this is the dog the standard was based on... not many show dogs look like this now

Well i stand by my post archer im sorry if u dont like it...but all im doing is voicing my opinion of a dog in a pic...just like u were doing.....is that ok.?...i dont care if the dog is a coated breed..so what, u can still tell alot by the dogs shape. U said earlier u were being attacked for voicing ur opinion ..well to my eye's this is not the case, folk are reply to ur posts...plain and simple. At no time in any of my posts have i said that ALL kc dogs are suffering from health defects...the majority of those that are winning would (imo), fall into this category....its obvious by some of the replys to my posts that either they are not being read properly or the repliant is taking only certain bits of my post to make a point....WELL here is my basic point once again....regardless of what u do with ur dogs health and fitness should come 1st , we all have a duty to breed the healthiest animals that we can....its not about sacrificing everything else for a certain look. Jayne to answer ur question.about the conditioning (hard exercise) of a bitch yes this can and does effect the heat cycle...i had a bitch that was 37lbs fit...but she would not come in season unless she was at least 40lbs...now before anyone who doesnt know better a lot of female athletes suffer from the same thing its common.Remember when a dog is a lb over weight it has the same effect as a human being a stone overweight.....and if anyone wants to have a go at this statment back it up by facts...dont just say thats nonsense..its a well known fact .

there you go Jim the Dandy

http://members.lycos.nl/lvanvliet/photoalbum8.html

this site has a lot of pics of the 'origional' staffords on it

Yeah that site is worth a look Emma I know the owners they have own some cracking dogs themselves too.

Here is a link I thought I would share as the website has some good information but I do like and agree with many of the points they raise regarding the standard.

http://www.staffordmall.com/standardopinion.htm

hi jayne,
wow lots of questions to answer, I will try to go through them one by one if I miss any out feel free to ask again.
You asked my opinion of the black dog in the picture, I would have to say much the same as *the other black dog* that was posted.
Incidentally, I dod not actually name the dog, I simply responded to tuskers post where the dogs picture and breed records were posted along with his name, if you look back a few pages you will see he asked for opinions on the dog.

To be a fair sport I posted a couple pics of my own dogs so that anyone wanting to critisize them in return could feel free my dogs are about as similar to KC staffs as chalk is to cheese, and yes they do have their individual faults, (especially when you try and match them to the breed standard) but then no dog is faultless.

In answer to your query about bitches seasons, I find all but one come into season only once a year, one comes in every 6 months (my smallest bitch) Im not sure how this compares to other staffs, My bitches usually have very regular cycles and can be easily predicted when they are going to break down.
I think fitness may have something to do with this? Im quite glad my bitches dont all season every 6 months anyway, it would be absolute pandamonium!!!!

Tusker......what picture!!!!!!!!!!

thanx for pics.. now can i ask do you all like this dog ?
do you see him as type you would like to own/breed ?

I'd say yes I do like him
not overly tall, not too heavy, not too skinny
He looks bog standard to me -
although we could probably do with a better picture of his head

To me he doesnt look like a bulldog and doesnt look too terrier which after all is what the standard did and does call for a balance of both

lol cbt.....did u not know question is my middle name
in ? i asked about what u thought ov my bitch...you say .as much the same as other black dog....do you mean...same comments as reason for not likeing cassanova bighead stuffy ect...cant rem your comments n dont know how to read again without loosing wot ive typed lol ...sorry for miss quoting you...about naming dog.... so many posts to rem who and what said :? ..
i think its good you posted pics ov your dogs..this gives ppl idea ov what each other likes

seasons....thanx for answer....mine are mainly 6month to the day but 1 has just had her 1st season and is 14month... mother was same..also sister not to regular....wonder if to do with breeding... altho i still think the fittness has something to do with it..just my op


off to think ov more ??????? lol

hes not a bad looking dog, he has a longer muzzle than some of todays staffs which is good, he also seems longer in the leg which is also good :smt023
he looks like he could do with being slimmed down just a wee bit, he looks quite chunky, and Ive allready said Im not keen on the colour (but thats just personal prefernce, the colour isnt important) and if I had to choose between a dog like him and some of todays dogs, I would choose him.

edited to add this is in response to the jim dandy dog pic

are there no head shots knocking about anywhere? :?
considering his relevance to the breed?

Originally posted by minty:

.but what i dont agree with if their trying to say the dog in that pic is under weight..i asked them to provide a pic of a healthy dog..(in their opinion) they didnt do it...so as far as im concerned the'r is nothing to discuss with them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Archer mate this isnt my quote
as to the breed standard i gave up discussing it a long time ago especially temperment because the only way to keep the proper stafford temperment is to use your dogs in the pit which means supporting the fighting off dogs

now we all seem to be on same wavelength...cbt/lel/me/
theres not alot ov this type left...thatswhy we need fresh blood (quote lels post ) if i cud breed adog simmalar to this then id be happy yes theres things we wud change about everything in life...


lel....please could you post for me the pic ov abbey and cassanova in same post(u know im thick lol)

then could you post for me the pictue i have on staff co. uk..ov crippen......spirestaff bobby dazzler..thanx

but surely things have to change with time?
evolution etc
Is there a need for this in 2005

I have to say I much prefer the look of Ch Game Laddie to Jim the Dandy if we are looking at dogs of old, he imo is a nicer build, I have always liked the look of the dog Fearless Red of Bandits, infact I like quite a few of the Bandits dogs.



For me its not just about whether a dog is "fit" (though health &* fitness is a primary concern) which is what is being pointed out that okay some of these dogs are in better (bodily) condition than others but for me its the whole package, some of the dogs posted may be fit and in better body condition (i.e. not fat) but then I look at the face & other parts and it throws me, like the short nose and wide head which is still apparent. Personally I like an all round dog with no extreme points at all.