Non Alsatian/GSD owners, your opinions appreciated please Discussions

The pics of Dog B are definitely the same dog, he was`nt stopped mid stride in the relaxed pic, if you look closely you can see the handler is standing still and turned away from the dog, [ looks like the handler was stood watching others in the ring ], so could`nt have been mid stride, the dog was clearly at rest, HTH
The first one definitely does`nt have HD [ just to keep it fair regarding both dogs ].

Much appreciation for you holding back ;-) I know it must be frustrating for past and present owners who would like to dive in but I will invite owner comments very soon I promise

I bet Charly has to be really careful hiding xmas pressies, have patience

[ Though as the response has been so big so soon - thanks everyone who has offered input so far - I might open the floor sooner, perhaps tomorrow tea time, how`s that for a compromise for everyone ]

My germanic 'deformed GSD' was hip scored and had a good result(4,6 total 10) and lived a long and healthy and VERY active life.He did obedience and agility and never had a days illness that wasn't caused by an outside factor.
Sorry to post as an ex GSD owner

He's lovely. To me, he looks different again (I don't know the jargon so will probably look stupid if I try and explain what I mean!) and definitely not as exaggerated. He looks balanced and comfortable, whereas dog be looks like he'd only be at home gaiting, and looks uncomfortable at rest. I know I know nothing about GSDs so this is opinion only, but there just seems something not quite right about dog B, and the construction just doesn't seem natural.

I don't like the sloped backs, so I vote dog A, looks much more balanced. For when the thread opens to owners why do show/work (i think?) GSDs have sloped backs? does it help them work, somehow or is it purely an aesthetic thing? are they healthier because they are being bred for show/work and are therefore hipscored, or is there something about the straight backed ones that is inherently unhealthy/more prone to dysplasia?

I have voted for dog A, dog B looks very stained and un-natural looking to me.

So much input from so many, thanks guys

The floor is now open to past and present owners of the breed, thank you to all who have managed to hold back as requested, your patience is much appreciated


So far this has been a nice relaxed thread, I hope we can maintain it so please as before, lets continue to keep it polite ;-)

Oh wow, now that for me, is the perfect shepherd!!! Ooooops! I'm off now.........

although we only had our rescue Shepherd for a week before he passed, he was more like Dog A, and that's the type I prefer.

The handler is very clearly at rest, not just paused from a sudden stop

Yep, Zamp Von Thermodos - I`m surprised you did`nt recognise him ;-)

*For the benefit of those who don`t know about this dog, he is the one the `kerfuffle` was about at Crufts last year.

I won`t give out details of registered name without the owners permission, however, [ and it`s up to you to decide if my word is good enough ], the dog comes to agility at my club, I am very strict regarding hip and general health of the dogs which train with me, dogs of `high incidence` breeds, [ of various conditions ], are required to have a suitable veterinary health pass before they can train with me. Her other dog of the same breed does have HD.

The hips might well be good but the carriage in my opinion, [ of dog B ], looks extremely uncomfortable for the dog, to give an analogy, the shocks on a car might be brand new and perfect but they are not a lot of use for driving if the wheel bearings are shot...

So wildmoor-what is the reason you think the german type dogs have better hip scored than the straight back type?
Cause imo the only reason they have better scores is because they do tend to be more 'ethically' bred due to health tests etc that are required compared to many dogs in england of straight back type that dont have any mandantory health tests(but this does not mean that responsible breeders dont health test) but how exactly does the banana or slant in the back shown in the german types affect HD results? how does this improve them? im not talking about how you can say so many have good results- im not quereing that- just how the slanted back helps?

even I recognised zamp! but i am forbidden to say the word as apparently i 'always' mention him!!

Given that he is lauded as an apparently good example and is a highly publicised dog he is surely a prime candidate for discussion on construction of the breed, no one can forbid you to discuss him

**********************************************Question: Have the Confomation of the Germanic dogs backs been altertered by trying to breed dogs with low hip scores?

Do Backs that slope like that have the hips at a different angle than a standard shaped dog?allowing the backs to take the strain so to speak?

Now why couldn't Archer's shepherd be Dog C??

I want to vote for Dog C ;-)

Beautiful shep Archer

I wanted to provide alternatives of the supposedly `ultimate` Show version compared with a `typical` pet version - and she was there at the right time when I had the camera out

I would hazard to say that if dogs in show rings being bred nearer to Archers lads build there would`nt be any of the current concern or division as he is waaaaay more to correct Standard [ imo ] than the current `typical` Show dogs wherever they are being bred.

I was told by a very experienced gsd breeder ( +30 years) that the shape of the back has absolutely no connection with the hip score. And that sounds right to me because hip dysplasia is caused by the ball of the hip not fitting well into the socket which would appear to have nothing to do with the dog's spine.

Hi,

As someone who has always owned GSDs and grown up with them, I don't know nearly as much about th4e breed as I should do.

So from a purely non-technical view (albeit biased) I prefer the look of dog A. Both my GSDs have straight backs with a flat topline - no slope at all.
And if Zane stands on his hind legs he can easily put his front paws well over my shoulders without even trying (and he's still growing!). So I don't think that shorter or smaller hind legs make the dog look bigger or more powerful at the front when they jump up.

Laura xx

Fair Enough, but if the pelvis is set on in such a extreme way, maybe the hips HAVE to be good.

maybe we should invent "back scoring!"