NI breeding ethics Controversial

Thanks Louise thats what I thought, I have been looking through some of the N.I sites and there is a bitch on one of the sites and I must say I do feel for her, could lack of excersise also be a contributing factor ?

Probably....also lack of time between litters I think too would make a difference..

What age do you think a stud dog should retire ?
Can he be over used ?
Open to anyone btw, thoughts and opinions...

I asked a friend about this question the other day because it is something that im curious about, I understand that a stud does not have all the body changes like a bitch but still it would be nice to know there is a limit x

Personally I would say yes there is a limit...like you jem it would be nice to know. x

Yes i would also be interested to know what the suggested stud dogs limit is. Is it a number of litters sired or is it age related - say from 2 until 8 studs can sire litters. Or is it both?

Personally yes you can overuse a stud...and flood the market with pups from one sire..

I think IF the stud has something exceptional then maybe use him after say the age of 8..but I would limit the use of any stud I owned...I would be very picky with whom he was used and only on health tested bitches who were shown or worked with good results etc

Louise im slightly confused did you mean use him until the age of 8? Or that you would continue beyond the age of 8 if you deemed it appropriate? lol x

Agree with this,
I don't think the age of the stud is important,if he continues to produce sound,good quality puppies.
Some studs in my breed have been used when they were 11/12 yrs old and still producing excellent examples of the breed.
I think the amount of times a stud is used though needs to be considered.
We have a stud dog,we are extremely fussy which bitches he covers,all must be over two yrs old,KC Registered,L2/HC Clear,(I don't believe in mating a Clear to a Carrier)PHPV & PPSC Unaffected,not produced a litter within the last 12 months and must have a genuine reason for breeding not just because etc....

Ok so age is not that important for studs (presuming they are old enough to stud!) so how many litters would you deem the maximum you would let one dog sire then?

The probelm with over using a sire is if any health defects turn up further down the line from him, there was an article called "The Price of Popularity" this article was actually written about a horse but the principle is still the same, if a serious defect is found further down the line from a popular sire, it may be difficult to find suitable breeding stock that does not go back to him, to try and eradicate those problems.

Mo

Sorry..was in a rush..

I would say I would use a stud from the age of 2-8 but be very selective.and use him very sparingly..(possibly something like 2-3 litters a year).and only after the age of 8 IF it was to an exceptional bitch that was going to produce some outstanding pups..but this would probably be a one off kind of deal..

I would prefer to wait though until the first litter had got to about 2-3 before using him again..this way you can SEE what quality you are producing..

Thats the difference...QUALITY over QUANTITY

Trouble with that is it's not all down to the stud dog,you will also get traits coming through from the bitch....

Trouble with what??

Which is why I said selectively, sparingly and in exceptional cases

Sorry,I should have explained better - you can wait to see what quality the stud produces but it won't all be down to him,he could produce an outstanding litter first time around,but used on a different bitch he could produce substandard puppies,it's not just down to the stud,the quality also has to come from the bitch and the breeding behind both dogs.

Ah right..I understand..of course...whish is why the stud dog owners need to do all their research on the bitches and make sure they KNOW (or as near as damn it) that the dogs are a good match..

I just see people repeating matings every year..(same dog and bitch) and not waiting to see what the dogs are producing to mature before they churn out another litter..same goes for waiting until they are old enough to test for eye defects etc..I mean..you could have a dog that carries HC...mate it 10 times to 10 bitches in the space of 2 or 3wks then you have a lot of dogs who will be affected etc...

better to wait and be safe than for the pups and the new owners to be sorry.. (this way you also get the opportunity to remove the dog from breeding lines should it carry epilepsy, hc etc)...

I am probably rambling and not making much sense..but I do know what I am trying to say LOL

The 'popular sire' syndrome can have devastating effects on breeds if people aren't careful

Lou, you are making perfect sense - it is just a shame that some breeders don't think like this when undertaking matings

I am not an expert but I agree