Must you live in the country to have a gundog? Discussions

I would agree with you ... and feel this article by Sue Kinchin says it all and all potential collie owners should read this piece ...

If you have a Border Collie, you have a very special dog - a dog that is intelligent, sensitive, eager to please and very quick to learn. Sounds like the perfect pet? Yes, with our help they can make wonderful pets, but we need to remember that when we take one of these very special and complex dogs into our homes we have a responsibility to try to understand all the factors that make a Border Collie what it is. The more we can understand our Border Collies the less likely it is that we, and our collie, will encounter serious problems.

Border Collies have been bred for generations in a very specific and restricted environment for a very specific task and, as a breed, are relative new-comers to life as pets. Some cope very well and others struggle. It is our duty to try to understand these beautiful, clever creatures and to help them to cope.

We can easily find books that tell us what Border Collies have been bred for. We will be warned about their sensitivity to movement and tendency to chase things and about the fact that they need to have their brains occupied, but what we are not generally asked to think about are those characteristics that are not necessary in a working sheepdog, but which make life easier for a pet dog.

Anyone who has owned Border Collies will be aware that they are generally cautious dogs. Without intensive and sensitive socialisation as puppies, they are often wary of people, intolerant of unfamiliar dogs and anxious about anything new or changing. Even with intensive socialisation, some retain these characteristics. Border Collies are prone to being affected by a single bad experience and have poor 'bounce back' when something goes wrong for them. They are very sensitive to reprimands, but equally crave guidance and instruction. Because they are very sensitive to movement, any fast movement that they cannot control can be very disturbing to them. No wonder so many Border Collies hate traffic. Remember though, it is this sensitivity and intelligence that we find so appealing.

So why are they like this? Why can life upset them so easily? To understand our collies fully, we need not only to consider what they have been bred for, but also what they have not been bred for.

Over the generations your Collie has NOT been bred to:-

Cope with noise
Collies need to have very acute hearing to hear and interpret a shepherd's signals at a great distance, but sheep farms are generally quiet places and their sensitive hearing does not cause them problems. Urban and domestic life bombards our dogs with noise and this can cause them extreme stress. Be aware of this and if necessary protect your dog from excessive noise. Speak quietly to your Collie, he doesn't need you to shout at him.

Cope with change
Sheep farms tend to be relatively unchanging places, there are sheep, the shepherd and his family, the barn where the dog sleeps and an odd tractor or car. Sheep dogs don't generally need to cope with change. Every time our urban collie leaves home the street outside will probably have changed (new vehicles, new people, rubbish skips etc.). Just going out for a walk, even if the dog looks forward to his walk, can generate stress and we need to be aware of this and help him to cope.

Cope with the presence of strangers/visitors or groups of people
Sheep farms tend to be isolated places. It is not necessary to be at ease with people to be a good working sheep dog. In a pet home our dogs are surrounded by many strange people in the street and visitors to the home. If you get your Collie as a puppy make sure he is sensitively socialised to people at an early age. If he is older respect the fact that he may find meeting strange people stressful.

Cope with the presence of strange dogs
Apart from the familiar dogs with similar characteristics that live on the farm with them, working sheepdogs are unlikely to need to mix with other dogs. As pet owners we expect them to meet a lot of strange dogs, many with appalling “dog manners”, and often with our dog on lead so that it does not have the option of running away. Even if your collie does not react aggressively in these situations he could well be very stressed.

Many sheepdogs will never leave their farms so traditionally they haven't really needed to get on with other dogs or unfamiliar people. Sociability and resilience are not characteristics that have historically been important in the development of the Border Collie.

Although your dog may not be directly from working stock, it will still have many of the characteristics inherited from generations of working sheep dogs and equally he may not have inherited those characteristics that would make life in a pet home easier for him.

Shepherds are the experts with Border Collies and we can learn a lot from them. Yes, we've all heard of harsh and callous shepherds, but many value their dogs very highly, not just as working dogs but also as members of their family.

Watch a sheepdog working
It is referring back to the shepherd for guidance all the time. His impulses to chase and control movement are under very tight control. The shepherd is guiding the dog and the dog is exhibiting self-control. Ideally, this is how we want our collie to be with us. If he is checking in with us to find out what to do next, not only is he under control and less likely to get himself into trouble, but he is also getting reassurance from us. He doesn't have to worry. We will tell him what to do in any situation. Encourage your dog to look to you for guidance. It shouldn't be too hard. It's in his genes!

Watch the shepherd, too
You just don't see excitable shepherds. An excitable shepherd would mean an excited dog and scattered sheep! Be a calm owner. Think about this if you are considering Agility or Flyball with your Collie. A good working sheep dog is fast and has lightning reflexes, but is not in a state of over-excitement. Teach your dog calmly what you want him to do. If he understands and is enjoying what he is doing, he will do his best. After all he has been bred from generations of dogs selected for their willingness to work as a team with their handler. There is no need for your dog to be roused to a hysterical state for it to perform well, and it is bad for its mental and physical health to be in such a state. If your dog shows signs of stress or gets over-excited ask yourself if this is really the best activity for him.

A final thought
When a working sheepdog is not working alongside the shepherd he is shut away in a quiet, non-stimulating place to rest and recover and to keep him out of mischief! Importantly, adrenalin levels that have probably been quite high while he is working now have a chance to return to normal. Your sensitive, alert pet Collie is being bombarded with information from his environment all the time. Make sure he has plenty of opportunity to rest in a secure, non-stimulating place where he can relax.

Think Border Collies, think working sheepdogs... maximise their strengths, understand and respect their weaknesses.

I don't live in the country and have a very happy and well exercised Golden Retriever, lots of parks and fields near me though. As long as the dogs needs are being met, I can't see what difference it makes where you live.

England has a population of 51 million, thanks to uncontrolled immigration. At the rate concrete seems to be poured on grassland, will we have a choice in the future?

Thanks Tony.

interesting thread.

i live in the country and absolutely love it, dont think I could cope in a town, but my dogs could.

im thinking about a gundog next and know that with what i have round here the dog will fulfill its needs and natural instincts. but i dont think its fair to say they cant live in towns. look at all the average families with 2.1 kids a cat an estate car and a labrador, they cope fine

getting the dog used to everything is in important so that the dog can live anywhere, after all you dont know whats going to happen in the future.

an example of a dog i wanted but dont think is suitable for where i live is a husky or malamute. as much as i love them, where i live there is no secure area where the dog could be let off, and as public transport is extremely limited and i cant drive i wouldnt want to keep it onlead everywhere, and the livestock we have around i couldnt risk it getting out, or offlead and catching something like that, so for now husky/mal is on hold, and im getting a gorgeous gundog instead good job i live in the country ;-)

A gundog is equally capable of chasing and killing livestock.

A friend weimaraner did exactly that , and it was brought up around sheep and other animals.

i know this but i plan on working my gundog for what it was bred to do, round here its easily accessible to go on working shoots etc but there isnt anything near me that would enable me to let a husky or mal do its job. you also have better chance at training a gundog to recall than you do a mal or sibe.

As was my friends, he was a working dog, but that did not stop him from when he was out on his own worrying sheep.

I also know someone who had one of her pups back for holidays,(another gundog breed) the pup was a regular visitor to her home, so has grown up with all her horses , ducks, hens and so on, one day whist playing outside with his siblings, he decided to go after the rooster, he killed it in an instant, before friend has a chase to do anything about it,

I mention all this as your post seems to give the impression that because its a gundog it wont have any instinct to chase/worry or kill livestock.

Which is not true, they are dogs and sometimes when unsupervised (accidents happen) they can do as much damage to other animals as any other dog.

i know all of this. i was being lighthearted in the fact that gundogs should live in the country and its a good job i do for me to have one, and mentioned why i wouldnt put a different breed of dog i liked into the situation i live in now, like some dogs i wouldnt like to put into a town situation. i know all dogs can adapt, but some breeds are better in certain areas than others.

How shocking that an owner let their dog out on his own so that he COULD worry sheep! How irresponsible and that is exactly how breeds are given bad names.



Many sheep are killed by sheepdogs and every other sort of breed or no breed due to failings of the owners

well i did think that, i wouldnt let a dog out on their own anyway....

Who said she let him out, accidents happen you know, not everyone is miss perfect like youself

P.S if I had placed a bet on you responding as you have, I would have won!

I am so glad I was not a disappointment dear!

No dear, you never are

I know!

Glad to hear it, but you are aware that accidents happen even to the most responsible peopel, remember your b/friends collie, being hit by a car, a awful accident that thankfully had a good outcome.;-)

yes i know accidents happen. but i do the utmost to stop them happening to my dogs, they cant get out of my garden, front or back. if that collie was my dog it wouldnt be running about on a car park next to a road ;-)

So do others , but the meaning behind "accidents" is that they happen even to those who do as you do.

What makes you think that because a dog worries sheep the owner has allowed it to be outside unsupervised.

because you wrote "when the dog was out on its own" implying that the dog was out unsupervised.