Loughlanders? Bernese Mountain Dog with Newfoundland Questions

If you must cross breeds then these two would IMO be asking for problems. Both breeds have health & structural problems and no one with a well-bred animal is going to allow crossing so only poor quality animals will be used and that is a recipe for disaster, disaster for both the owner of such a cross and the poor animals, defiantly not to be encouraged.

I have just read through this thread from start to finish and dont think people where trying to be sarcastic or there was any animosity, from what I can see people went out of there way to search the net to try to find out about this for you and reported back their findings, you did not make it clear that you already had one of these puppies and as far as I can see people were just concerned and trying to warn you about paying over the odds for a dog that is a cross possibly from a breeder who has not taken the responsibility to carry out important health tests.
As a puppy owner myself my worse fear is him becoming ill, and I have no guarentees as you say if he will or wont but I can at least be confident in the fact his parents have had all the necessary health tests and I have done all I can to ensure he doesnt have any hereditary illnesses.
I hope you dont take this the wrong way I am not trying to make a dig or insult you, I hope you are very happy with your puppy and am sure he is lovely, I am just trying (probably unsuccesfully) to explain everyone elses concerns.
I hope I havent cause any offence wasnt my intention!

I too must apologise because I missed page two when reading this thread, I would not have posted as I have if I had known then the poster had already bought such a cross. However having made my comments I will stick by them and repeat this is not an advisable cross particularly if the health of the ancestry of both sides is not known for many generations and that health tests have been carried out and proved satisfactory for the same sort of time.

However the pup is born and you are now the owner, I wish you pleasure in your pup and hope you and it have no problems, would advise insuring though and having the hips, elbows and heart checked as soon as the pup is old enough.

We obviously have made sure of the health of all our dogs. Not just for our peace of mind but for the dogs sake too.

I didnt take any offence from the advice and fully understood what people were saying to me. What i did not understand is why they had to focus on all the negatives and make us feel entirely unwelcome which is why i wrote the angry post. As i have said before i was asking information about the dogs and that is what i have recieved in a roundabout way. shame that nobody considered the x was produced frm two pure breeds over 6 generations ago and there are loughlanders well over the age of 8 or even 10 years old. its also a shame that there a few people open minded enough about certain breeds of dogs. because when you think about it, all these so called pure and pedigree breeds began as crosses at first. Anyway not to rant... thanks for all your posts and advice.

Hi doodles

I'm sorry if you were made to feel unwelcome, I don't think anyone intended that.

There is an understandable negative reaction to deliberate crossbreeding because of the current trend by puppy farmers who breed for profit and give these crosses cute names to imply that they are some sort of breed eg Puggle - Poodle x Pug.

Not all are bred by puppy farmers, in fact I know some of the Bernese breeders who had accidental Bernese x Newfie litters some decades ago but these were never deliberate, or promoted as anything other than mongrels, and apart from the original accidental cross litter in Switzerland, they were never officially incorporated into the Bernese genepool.

If crossbreeding were to be used to improve the health of either the Bernese or the Newfoundland, a different breed would be advisable considering the health problems associated with both of these breeds. In my opinion, the only good reason for using a cross would be to improve health.

It's true that some breeds have been formed by crossing existing breeds but this is certainly not the case for most, which have developed from landrace populations bred for a specific purpose.

Anyway, I would like to welcome you and look forward to seeing photos of your pup

Oh well that's good then.

What sort of health testing did they do then, I've no real knowledge of either breed so would be interested on what they had done.

Hi Doodles sorry if we made you feel unwelcome at the beginning of this thread,we were just pointing out the health problems these two breeds of dogs have and were hoping to be helpful.I can say I owned a Newfie x Berner,she was an accidental mating but both the parents are health tested so we knew she would have no hidden health problems,I no longer own her we returned her to the Breeder as she and I had a clash of personalities,but she is a beautiful chunky healthy girl and rehomed there are pictures from last year of her if you care to take a look,back in the archives.Good luck with your dog.

Almost all pedigree breeds were developed to serve a purpose. Berners were developed as mountain dogs that were used to herd and guard flocks. Newfies were developed mainly to pull loads and for water rescue. I cannot see what the purpose would be in crossing two breeds with such different working traits? Perhaps you could explain the breeders intentions in producing this cross?

Bit confused now, are people saying that the crossing is being undertaken to improve the health of one or the other of these breeds? Can understand if this is so but as they suffer from simular problems I am surprised and if that is the case why have they been given a name. If a breed is outcrossed for a health or construction reason they are not given a 'name' as the resulting dogs are just a cross and the best are then bred back into the breed they were originally bred to help, the rest being homed as crosses.

The deliberate breeding of crossbreeds and then giving them a name does sound like someone breeding for money to me. If, as has been said, these crosses have been bred for 10 years does that mean that they have been breeding true for 10 years or have people been crossing the 2 breeds for 10 years and if the latter, why? Come to think of it, why anyway, unless it was just to make money, if there was some reason it is good to add to our knowledge and know why and how this crossbreed was undertaken as we do with the crosses like Lurchers, Patterdales and Jacks.

I'm with you Thordell. These breeds cannot be being crossed to improve the health of either breed as they carry similar health issues. That's why I'm hoping they are being crossed with some purpose in mind and not just as a money spinner.

I do hope the OP will come back with details of the health tests and intentions behind the breeding to help clarify the situation.

Hi. well basically the breeders main intention was to create a set of beautiful yet placid dogs as berners can be snappy whereas the newfies are very chilled out (mayb thats the other way around). The dogs were originally bred from a pedigree drummann bernese (drumman being the breeders main breed name) and her drummann newfies. These dogs had all the tests they are meant to have, which includes the hip tests etc. Forgive the brief detail, i'm not very knowledgable about tests and things as my mum deals with all the specifics, lol. Far back along the line a german import was used and also had the tests. Another question that has been asked is whether it was berners and newfies being bred over and over or whether Kane (my pup) was 6th generation being bred from 2 'loughlanders'. After the original breeding of the berner and newfie, the loughlanders have then been bred to produce the next generations. The breeder actually advertised the puppies as crosses. When we met her she told us that she liked to call them by her given name of loughlanders but did not say that it was a specific breed. I dont know i guess it was just a kinda pet name she has for them. I dont know if this clears anything up and forgive me if its a little mixed up and illegible but im trying to get this post down in a short amount of time.
Thanks

Ah, I thought it may have been Drumman. Sue Curle-Lane (the breeder) said many years ago that she intended doing this but as I had heard no more about it, I thought no more of it.

Sue's foundation bitch was from me, born early 80s so Kane could well have my bloodlines behind him.

Newf's temperament does tend to be more laid back than Bernese but I certainly wouldn't describe Bernese as snappy. They were bred originally as multi purpose farm dogs and do retain a strong guarding instinct. There have been problems with aggression though in some bloodlines.

Wow you never know what your going to find out. Do you breed dogs? Can i ask you what the dogs name was that Sue bought?

Carlacot Cariad........ gosh I can't remember her pet name now!

I don't breed dogs now but I used to. My last Bernese litter was 10 years ago

Well i dont know if your bitch will be in Kanes bloodline because the family line doesnt go that far back on the information sheet we have but i'd say it would be most likely. Its really great to find someone who knows Sue and knows about them as we havent really found much info on that side so far. We do actually have a pedigree for Kane although we did not expect to get one because we were obviously thinking x breed, but the pedigree does go bk 6 generations. Thanks

You're welcome

Now you must show us some photos

Well i'll find my cam lead and post some 2moro nite if thats ok with you all

Yep thanks

Finally got my cam up and running....well i'm not too sure how to post pics so i'm going to try and post an url to kanes' photo album.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/kanes_piccys/96a7001d.jpg

If this isnt working let me know and i'll fix it somehow

Thanks x