Looking to get a NI General Chat

You really do have a problem with people who are prepared to speak up don`t you :?
You need to take the blinkers off, if you want to stay in a dreamworld where you can pretend to yourself that all is perfect that`s your choice but not everyone else want`s to live in la la land, they want to know the truth about their potential future breeds whatever they may be.
Fact : Dawn, myself, Louise, Mahooli, and others are concerned about health in dogs - lots of them, not just NIs, and like it or not we have been doing a lot of research into what`s been going on, yes including in the NI world.
Fact :None of us own NIs so have no axe to grind in terms of this or that faction and certainly no reason to lie as you infer.
The only motive if that`s what you want to call it is wanting to see an end to bad practices and the suffering of sick and dying dogs and the heartache their owners go through because of those bad practices.
If you took a look around other areas of the forum you will see the same people raising health and ethics concerns about other breeds and crosses too, so please stop the worn out `picking on NIs` card, it`s tedious

If people wanted to give an honest representation yes they would. I have deaf dogs for instance, hereditary deafness because of idiotic breeders, so heck yes I take the opportunity to educate people who ask about my dogs at shows so that as potential BC owners they will know, for instance, to avoid breeders who put merles together to breed from.

If all owners of dogs with hereditary problems were to openly tell people the lines their dogs came from so that others can avoid them then they would be doing their breed a great service.

I would have no clue if they would discuss their dogs health issues, we do at KC shows though, anything that comes to light is discussed.

I know Ursula Kent said a dog called "Merlin" MAULED a child at a show and it was seen by many, do you think that was hearsay, or did she make it up?

Hmmm confused by this, not sure what you are getting at I thought the Merlin thing was said and done?
I dont feel my head is in the sand, I think health issues are over exaggerated and yes I agree bad breeding practices should be exposed and stopped if possible but I dont think its fair to discriminate a whole breed, I would like to see proof thats all

Well you said was things like aggression discussed at shows, yes? Well Merlin certainly was wasnt he!!! Was it not proof of an aggressive NI? isnt that what you wanted? Because its "said and done" doesnt mean it didnt happen does it, wasnt hearsay or scare mongery was it?

Merlin's story is certainly a sad one but not a common one I think the poor boy was not given the right attention and training, his aggression was clearly environmental not because he was a NI

Ahh but Suzy thats your opinion, his aggression was not clear to you at all, you didnt know him, see what you are doing? Telling people what actually IS the case when you werent there, you accuse us of that even when we quote from the dogs owners themselves!! One rule for us and one rule for you........!!

Now you are making an assumption, and you assume right I was not there but I have read the numerous posts about Merlin on this forum and others and the one post that saddened me was from the person who had merlin after SC, and I copied it and posted it on here because I felt it was relevent, NOT because he was NI but because he had been given a very bad start and I feel his death could have been avoided, IF merlin had been placed with an experienced owner who could have given him time, retrained him and not used and abused him then he could have come right. I did meet him once and he was unruly but at that time not aggressive, as I said his story is sad but not unusual, an aggressive NI however in my opinion is unusual.

There you go, second hand info you accuse us of using and quoting, not relevant is it? PROOF I want! PROVE to me Merlin was not people aggressive because he just was, or for another reason, you cant can you, but you feel very strongly that what you read elsewhere is correct dont you? See where I am going.....!!

We could go on but I dont think there is a point. When I and others have quoted "facts" from elsewhere, from OWNERS of these dogs who have suffered Epliepsy, Collapsing for no reason etc.. we are said to be quoting "hearsay" but you are quoting from that same place telling us its true!!

Thats EXACTLY what SC said of him, but you call her a liar!

I do see where you are going and in part I agree, but my perception is different from yours,there are some health issues there are some bad breeders but not all, this is going round in circles and there is a pattern to every NI thread, thats why we are drawn here, to the debate, to put our point across, I just dont see it, I know that between SC and JK the war goes on and it is a great shame that owners and the good breeders of NI have been dragged into it.

We are all guilty of making assumptions and percieving things to meet our own views but that does not make us right... of course you think you are right and I think I am ... human nature

Val
This ^ above is the question i asked Raz. I would imagine anyone discussing the pro's & cons of dog ownership of a certain breed would include the health problems of that breed. Raz covered some of the traits of the NI but did not state any health problems. All i asked her was is there any. So far she has not answered me. Below is your response to that question & all you have said is there are health problems in every breed, i know this. What i'm asking is what would Raz say the health problems of the NI were?
I'm not saying anything about the breeders or society so i dont know why you are going on about them.
As to your question about Kiesha - she has shown no health problems to date & i hope she never does. As Dawn rightly said she is not matured yet (still under 2) further to that she is not full NI.

I dont think there is one person that has ever said all NI breeders are bad, I certainly dont think that, but what i do think, is because of all the lying and dreadful pedigrees, people would be "wallies" to make up, so one can only assume they are correct, they dont stand a chance of breeding sound healthy dogs as they are all founded on god knows what and who!

Anyways, we agree in part.

Hi Suzy
I notice in your post you say there are some health issues
Could you please tell me what they are? Thank you.

Sorry, been reading this thread with enjoyment, seemed fairly well balanced information until you started to post BD.

How can you possibly justify your two posts. One says plenty of health problems, and the other says the problems only manifest after 2 years and the majority are younger than that.

Why is it that as soon as you start to post the thread turns into a slanging match. Could it be that you make so many unfounded statements, or rather your statements are exaggerated out of all proportion?

I also met Merlin and didn't see signs of aggression - more a boisterous dog who hadn't been trained and socialised properly as a puppy.

The reason i didn't include any health problems is i was talking from my own experience as an NI owner and the health problems have already been mentioned by Louise13. Ela is only 6 months old but is healthy (we will hip score once she hits 12 months), her Mum, Dad, Grandad, Granmother, Great auntie, Cousins and other Auntie's and Uncles are all healthy.

I know there is HD in the breed which is why its important to get hip scores (these hip scores are going down and this is the direction we all want them to go in), a very few dogs have eplispsy but these seem to be down to one mating. There are rumours of Addisons and WVD but despite asking the people saying this for evidence and figures it remains hearsay.

So i have to say the amount people go on about how unhealthy the NI i disagree with. I have meet prob about 100 of these dogs now and speak to many people and aside from bad Hips for one owner and a slightly high hip score they are all healthy.

There is a lovely NI/Ute who is only 5 months old at Pro Dogs direct at the minute.

Yes, whatever you say Efes.

Yes Heidi that what Sandra said of him too, except Ursula said he "mauled" a child at the NI show! See how things get pulled out of proportion.