Thank you LS - I am keeping my fingers, toes crossed Oh and so are Soochie and PJ - Loki too Many thanks again Take care and hope you and Mr Loki are hail and hearty
Oh I think I spoke way too soon! Got a shock tonight - Friday night about 5.00 pm I heard a banging in my hall and thought it was Loki playing with one of her toys - a fox soft toy head with a rope handle at each side, is her favourite today, she bangs it about, anyway, I went out to see what she was banging on and it was Loki having a fit! It lasted about a minute. Then at 10.45pm she took another and again at midnight. She is panting so much at the moment! She is a bit disorientated but still her lovable self. When she took the early one and just after she came out of it, she came up to me and licked all my hands! She ate a bit but not as much as when she took her first ever fit about 2 months ago now (19 January). It is still a shock and a fright to see her and I do feel for Lyn with her dog. Just thought I would post up the latest on Loki.
Okay so it's been about 3 weeks or so? I'm, so sorry honey but don't panic. This is a crap situation but is treatable, I promise - look at my Loki . This is roughy how things started with us. With Loki it was 10 -14 days but gradually things improved. Last time we went 24 weeks totally fit free and although his recent fitting period has been tough on us, it is still a bonus, going for so long without a fit. Honey you know that at first I tried herbal/natural routes but things actually got worse. I think you are on phenobarbital? This should have an effect within two weeks. Sweetie you need to see your vet to check the dose and ask about a possible adjunct (additional treatment) of KBr (potassium bromide). Loki is on potassium bromide (KBr) which takes much longer to build up in the system. Or even try KBr on its own - my Loki had a bad reaction to phenobarbital which is why we went down the KBr route. You might just need to wait and play it out or perhaps a combination treatment of PB and KBr. KBr is a kinder treatment with respect to side-effects (and the liver) but takes longer to work - I'm talking months. Have you been given rectal diazepam at all? This is for cluster seizures, where the dog fits more than once in 24 hours. During a period of fits my Loki typically fits every few hours or so in a 60 hour period but the diazepam does seem to arrest the clusters, although it causes bad side effects such as anxiety, pacing, hyper activity. Please have a look at the Guardian Angels website - I was in no-man's land until I read it and discovered options and advice. During a fit all you can do is ensure the dog isn't at risk from hurting itself. Afterwards you need to be there to ressure, comfort, ensure safety when the dog is pacing around, provide water and food as they are usually ravenous. Be prepared for a loss of faculties for a time. The poor dog doesn't quite know who it is and may appear a bit out of it for a few days. You must get your meds sorted but if there is anything I can do - any advice I can offer or supprt please contact me. I know how it is to have a fitting dog but you are not alone. You just need to get the balance right. Things that can help with some dogs are Rescue Remedy, carbohydrate-rich food after a fit (eg porridge, rice cakes, potato), Skullcap & Valerien as an adjunct to mainstream drug therapy or even alone, depending on the dog, ice cream at night to keep blood sugar levels constant ... milk thistle for liver protection during phenobarbital treatment. You know my Loki is on KBr only. This isn't the drug of choice for vets. I don't know why but it is something I insisted on after Loki's bad reaction to PB and after reading owner reports on the Guardian Angels website ("what would you do differently?" where they wished they had tried KBr, rather than PB because of liver toxicity). Your dog can have a wonderfully fulfilling life! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Just caught up with this thread. I'm so sorry to hear about Loki. That said, it looks like you have some very good advice from knowlegeable owners that have been in your situation. Hugs to you and Loki. I hope she gets her siezures under control soon.
How is she now? Anymore fits? Please have a look at the Guardian Angels valium protocol http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/OralandRectalProtocol.htm and think about using it. Also be aware that the post-ictal phase (the aftermath of the fitting period) can be worse (for you) than the fits themselves. Loki blunders around banging into things, whining, ravenous, not himself at all and seemingly oblivious to commands etc. It lasts for up to 5 days. Then he is is lovely self again.
Loki had another fit before going to bed - about 1 am. She had been restless and I was just going to respond on here when the fit starrted. It, like the others, did not last long but she was very disorientated. She then went to her bed and slept until 6.10 am when she took another fit. At 10.00 am she took another and just like the rest did not last long. She is resting in her crate just now after eating a tin of tuna and rice and scrambled eggs just now! She drank a large bowl of water. I can't get an answer, as yet, from the Vet but I shall keep on trying. I would like to thank Tawneywolf, for your support - I do appreciate it. Lucky Star for all the great advice and I will go to the link in a wee while. It is very good of you to take the time to put up all the advice and I really am very appreciative of it. I am a complete novice firstly, in having a dog and, secondly, with one who fits - Loki is so loving afterwards. It is so good of you, Lucky Star. And thank you too Muttzrule and I wholeheartedly agree with you when you said "That said, it looks like you have some very good advice from knowlegeable owners that have been in your situation." The advice I received when Loki took her first fit on 19 January from members of this lovely board, was second to none! I learned more than from the Vet! Again, all, many thanks for your words of support and advice given. Luvs frae Loki and I
I'm so sorry to read all you're going through with your Loki, and you've had some excellent help, together with your vet you will get on top of this, so try not to worry too much about Loki. It must be so frightening to watch this, and see her like she is afterwards, you poor thing going through all this with your beloved dog. I hope you get hold of your vet soon and he'll make things better. Take care.xx
So that's about 5 fits in around 17 hours? Loki is suffering from a cluster - my Loki has the same thing. With us they usually continue like this, every few hours, over a 60 hour period, or around 3 days. The rectal diazepam we have is given as three tubes after the first fit and continued if fits continue. Initially I wasn't convinced it was doing much but having logged it in my diary I can see now that when we don't give it the fits are more severe, he has more of them and recovery longer. The diazepam is given to dogs that suffer from clusters in order to reduce and arrest the fits. Poor Loki. I wouldn't wish this on anyone and I'm so sorry this has happened. I hope you can get to speak to a vet soon but perhaps it will just be a case of the fits needing to play themselves out. The time my Loki had the almost continual fitting over an hour, by the time the vet came there wasn't much he could do. He could have taken him in over night to go on a drip for dehydration and more valium but we looked after him at home. One thing to keep an eye on is dehydration though. If Loki is having trouble drinking you could try using something like a water pistol or clean squeezy bottle to put water into her mouth.
Some info about the valium protocol: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/OralandRectalProtocol.htm
Hello Helena and many thanks for your support. I hadn't a clue about fits when Loki first took one back in January and I put it up on here, I have had great support from all, Lucky Star has been so helpful and all the information I have been given, is being put to good use. I could only speak to the Emergency Vets this afternoon and I called again just a short while ago but could only speak to the receptionist. I hope Loki sleeps all night without a fit. She is exhausted. Again, many thanks for your support - I do appreciate it xx
Thank you so much Lucky Star for all your great advice and the links. I opened up the Valium one just now. I learn something knew every day! I never realised dogs could be given such treatment! I will ask the Vet on Monday. Since 6 am Saturday morning, Loki has now had 9 fits. She took one just as I started this. She would take water and I tried to give it to her as you said - which I did appreciate as I would never have thought of that - use a squirter bottle. Unfortunately, the squirter on it does not work! As she is hungry, I gave her a breast of chicken and put lots of water in it. I cut the chicken up and she lunged into it. Water was taken as well as the chicken. She had another bowlful too (soup bowl size) of the same but with more water than chicken in it. I called the emergency Vets about 11 pm but there is only one Vet on duty and he is extremely busy, I was told. They were also full! It turned out to be the PDSA and it was on the west side of Glasgow! If Loki continues to have fits tomorrow, I will call them again and see if they could get transport to take us there. I do not want to risk taking her in a taxi. I don't think I could cope! There is an awful smell from the saliva, which pours out of her mouth, is this normal - the smell I mean? I am keeping my fingers crossed that she sleeps all night. She was wandering around in circles a wee while ago but I managed to get her to go into her crate. Once again, Lucky Star, many many thanks for all your kind help and advice. I do appreciate it very much. Take care. xx
Oh poor Loki, I really feel for you both. :-( Yes, we get the horrible saliva smell as well. It's really viscous too and hard to clean up afterwards. Well done on getting water into Loki. We have also used a spoon, although some does end up coming out again and even our hands. The first time Loki had a cluster we took him to the vets and they kept him in under sedation and on a drip for dehydration. That night was the worst ever, thinking of him there and seeing all his things around the house. It was the following day that they sent us to the consultant for all the scans and tests. The consultant wanted to keep him there for 3-4 days while being given mega loading dose of PB but we refused to do that. I hope and prey that Loki doesn't have anymore now. Poor lass will be exhausted after all this. When she does come out of them try not to be too alarmed if she is not herself for a few days - Loki is like a different dog but always comes back to normal. xxx
Hello Lucky Star I had to call the emergency vet again this morning and made arrangements for the pet ambulance to come and collect us. Loki had taken, in total since 12.15 am this morning until 11.15 am this morning, 6 fits. This made an overall total of fits since Friday at 5 pm - 16! Way to much and I couldn't take it any more. Got her to the hospital and the vet said blood tests would be taken, a drip was going to be inserted as she was a wee bit dehydrated, they may also give her an injection to knock her out, depending if she takes more fits. I will call in a wee bit to find out how she is. The pet ambulance brought me home again. They will send Loki to my vet tomorrow, where I will collect her. Saves me a journey into Glasgow! Again, many thanks for all your help and support. I do appreciate it - as I do all others who responded Take care. Hugs to you and yours and Loki xx
I'm sorry to read that you are going through such a bad time.. Poor Loki, I don't know anything about fits but i'm sure the vets will be able to help her and get her on the mend. Take care, shall think of you both.
Oh I've been thinking of little Loki all day! Thank you for posting an update. She is in good hands, as you know, but I know how hard it will be for you tonight when you think of her and your routine and she isn't there. Poor little girl deserves better than this. It must be through the Redkite lines. I tried to hard to find out if it was in the breeding but was met with brick walls all the time. I didn't particularly want to blame anyone - I just wanted the information so that I could tell my vet. My heart goes out to you and what you are going through and I have shed a few tears today thinking of you. The bromide should help, although it does take a few months to do its thing, so you may well see more fits during that time. But I'm so glad you have been advised about the valium. It won't stop the fits but it will reduce the number and their severity. Loki reacts badly afterwards (hyper - just for a change ) but it is worth it in order to reduce the fits. On the Guardian Angels Website - under the valium protocol - there is a link for them to e-mail you some info on the valium protocol. I hope you have a reasonable night - I know you will miss Loki and the house will seem really empty but I also hope it will give you a chance to have some well-needed sleep. Wishing you a peaceful night. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello Toby Many thanks for your kind words of support. I wouldn't wish those fits on any animal. I felt so helpless but with the support of all on here and the help and advice given to me by Lucky Star, have helped me so much. Again, many thanks. Take care.
Hello Lucky Star and many many thanks for your lovely words of support. I do appreciate everything you have done for me and all the links you have provided me with. I didn't feel so stupid at the PDSA (who act as the emergency service for my vet) when the vet there was telling me about Bromide etc! I called the hospital earlier and told Loki had taken another fit but it was over very quickly. The vet told me she had given Loki an injection of Phenobarb. I keep looking around for her and getting up to go and see how she is. I miss her but grateful too that she is in the best place at the moment to help her. I will remember too what you have told me about the Guardian Website and will go there. I have to call the PDSA at 7.30 am in the morning to find out how she is and the time that Loki is being transported to the vet. I shall keep you updated, LS Again, thank you so much for your lovely words of support. Take care and best wishes to you and yours
Hi there, I don't know how I've managed to miss your posts until now but I just wanted to offer my support. From what I've read it looks as if you've already received a great deal of information and advice and I can see some particularly good stuff from Lucky star there. Our first GSD started having many fits at only eight months of age and to cut a very long story short (and actually to save me from too much upset going into all the details) he was put to sleep at only 14 months of age on my vets advice to spare him anymore suffering (and he was suffering). He was of exceptional breeding (or so we considered it to be at that time) having nearly all his pedigree in red and his kennels were winning just about everything at that time. On contacting them we were told they hadn't had epilepsy in their lines for over 12 years. As our knowledge of the breed grew over the years we discovered there was a certain dog in the line who was shown at top level and then rushed away for fear that he would have a seisure. It can happen to anyone, although with very careful health sceening it shouldn't by honest breeders. Anyway slight ramble there..apologies but, it still hurts as he was a fantastic dog and is still dearly missed. As I see LS stated though in an earlier post it doesn't always have to be a death sentance and there are many good treatments out there and I'm sure with the right support you'll be able to help Lokki. I noticed you mentioning his thirst and hunger after seizures I guess you'll already be aware that this is a common side effect of them as it affects the hypothalmus area of the brain which is responsible for making us feel hungry and thirsty and in some instances increased thirst and/or hunger may be a sign on an oncomming seisure. Please continue to keep us all posted. I will be thinking about you.
