Labrador - Have you heard of this affix? General Chat

In your opinion!

Im saying if you dont want people to make comments on what they see, they should update their site, if not, be prepared to pick up on stuff! He doesnt update the site apparently, but he could ask or pay somebody else to do it, maybe he is just not bothered?

Congratulations!

EXACTLY my point, thank you!

I didnt say she couldnt talk about her own dogs, dont be silly, I said I couldnt understand why she is on about them in this thread, still dont? Im also NOT critising her!! I actually think MS is one of the most decent breeders on here with regard to health testing and producing quality animals.

LOL!!!! Clearly living with two adolesent animals of the same sex (males usually) from the same litter isnt something they come across then, I, on several occasions took in one of two littermates that had started fighting with the other, the breeding of which features regularly in the show ring today, however when it came down to the "responsibility" of taking one back, it ended there!!!

Dawn,

The issue of not taking puppies back is completely seperate and not what this thread is to do with. IMO all breeders should take puppies back if necessary (we ask people to sign something to say they will come back to us if they cant be kept, not sold on). But maybe a breeder who wont take them back is not a good breeder and that could explain the problems? A lot of breeders is showing and working will "run on" couple from a litter to see what turns out best, and the majority will have no problems at all. I'd personally not sell two pups from a litter as we sell all of ours as pets and i like to think that all our puppies should have plenty of time spent on their training etc, and the average pet owner cant devote enought time to two pups as you have to walk them and train them seperately. I would, however, not making a sweeping statement calling all breeders who sell littermates irresponsible, if they are being sold into a show home then its no different to the breeder keeping back two themselves?? But that is not an issue we would have i think as i dont really want my pups going into show homes.

I do believe that the OP was asking about the breeder. He, himself, did not come on here posting so why should he be so concerned?? He is probably oblivious to this forum and this thread and i daresay that a couple of people criticising him in a forum is not going to do too much damage to his breeding as word of mouth is what sells puppies and, from what i can see, those who are criticising (ie you, and...??) have not been to his kennels, have not spoken to him, have not SEEN any of his dogs... You've just found a website which didnt come up to your standard?? Thats not enough to label someone a bad breeder IMO. Unhappy owners, bad breeding practices and ill-treated dogs are what make bad breeders.

I just think that people should make up their own mind about breeders as there are too many people on this forum with too many opinions and no idea

Its is different Jessica, at what age do breeders sell on a pup that wont make the grade? 6, 7mths? not often after that, the problems of dominance will not arise untill 12mths or so, often older. I raised this point as the breeder this thread is about has done that, homed male littermates and also due to him selling a BOOKED puppy, homed a puppy of just 6wks old with the person that should of had the pup he sold! Im sorry but to me it doesnt paint a good picture. he has also told a purchaser that at just 5mths old his dog is stud worthy, tell me you agree with that???

No, thats not true at all, the website could be completely trash for me, but closed in kennels with sawdust on the floors, lots of puppies and no health tests (or updated ones) does not give a good impression on me, nor most other folk who would expect better of a breeder. I havent said he is a "bad breeder" you have come up with that, I have said his dogs on his site do not have health tests on there, some of the photographs see the dogs looking unhappy, the videos show a commercial operation that personally doesnt give a good impression, coupled with selling littermates and a 6wk old pup, my opinion is that of NOT presenting a good one, and that is all I have said! Please dont make out I have said he is a bad breeder, I havent, I also accept that the TWO people who have dogs from him are happy with them, why would I question that?

You haven't SAID he is a bad breeder, you are definately IMPLYING it though, which is just as damaging ;-) He could well be a bad breeder, i dont know! As i said, i dont know the man, I do know of people other than the two on here who have had puppies from this kennel and they have had good health test results, happy temperments and the owners had nothing bad to say about the breeder. So, I still stand by what i said, i'd rather visit the breeder myself than label him as a bad breeder as you are doing, maybe not directly, but by what you are saying, that is the inference.

The talk of 6 week old pups, if it IS true i dont agree with it. But i dont know where that quote came from, frankly, i barely understood what it was saying!! And i would want to speak to the person myself before making any judgement on that ;-)

You dont need to do bold, I can read it normally

It is true about the 6 week old pup Jessica.

So the two dogs on here bred by this chap have had health tests then with good results? Great, I mean that, except I didnt see anywhere where they said they had?:?

Sorry about the bold I tried to do the different quote things and it all came out as one, so i thought i'd bold my answers to make it easier to read, but c*cked that up too

I didnt say it wasn't true, not doubting what you're saying, just that i like to make up my own opinions.

I have no idea about whether the two owners on here have had their dogs tested :? As i said in the previous post, i was talking about dogs other than the two on here

Not a problem with the bold bit.

I understand you make up your own opinions, we all do, as I have given the info I have on this occasion. I have absolutely nothing at all against this guy persoanlly at all, Im just not impressed with what he shows and what his site is promoting.

I missread the bit about the tests, but as i said, that IS good news!

"Methinks the lady doth protest too much"

If I was actively breeding & had a website I would have all the latest clinical & genetic health test results on my website-complete with the dogs KC names so that the results can be checked before the expense of ringing me. For example my Jessie's hip score will be on her page with updated information as the obvious reason why she will never be bred from.

Lets face it this guy is not a"hobby"breeder, he is a commercial breeder, the kennels are far from ideal for an intelligent breed like a Labrador Retriever. No outside individual runs & no toys in the indoor kennels. The video shows puppies alone with food & water-how can he know if every puppy is getting the right amount of food if he isn't there watching them-that's part of the "enjoyable"side of having a litter.

I'm not"slagging"him off, just saying what his site makes him appear to be-IMHO not a very professional site at all, I wouldn't pay for the poor quality of the site graphics, layout etc

[QUOTE=JoedeeUK;1563652]"Methinks the lady doth protest too much"
If I was actively breeding & had a website I would have all the latest clinical & genetic health test results on my website-complete with the dogs KC names so that the results can be checked before the expense of ringing me. For example my Jessie's hip score will be on her page with updated information as the obvious reason why she will never be bred from.

Lets face it this guy is not a"hobby"breeder, he is a commercial breeder, the kennels are far from ideal for an intelligent breed like a Labrador Retriever. No outside individual runs & no toys in the indoor kennels. The video shows puppies alone with food & water-how can he know if every puppy is getting the right amount of food if he isn't there watching them-that's part of the "enjoyable"side of having a litter.

I'm not"slagging"him off, just saying what his site makes him appear to be-IMHO not a very professional site at all, I wouldn't pay for the poor quality of the site graphics, layout etc[/QUOTE]

I dont think so. Are you questioning my ethics by any chance..... All my breeding stock is heath tested in accordance with the breed clubs and the KC as is the dogs I use. In fact I could have made a small fortune as I have a dog people would kill to use at stud but he's not available as I dont like his temperment.
There are at least two people on here who I have given a link to this site who have bought puppies off me and can testify to my breeding practises, not that it's any of your business.
I was simply stating not all people are computer literate, some of the top breeders in a lot of breeds are now quite elderly and whilst they have a wealth of experience they dont neccesarily have the technical know how with PC's
All i was saying is its about time we knew all the facts before we castigated every breeder.
Oh by the way how were the pups alone he was obviously photographing them, on my puppy photo's they all probably appear alone as im on the other side of the lens, but as anyone who's bought a puppy of me would know my litters are in the dining room next to my pc and I stay up with them until there 3 weeks old, hence the late night conversations on here with Phil and Denis.

I've only met you once & have no interest in your breeding or sales practices

This guy isn't elderly look at his army service dates & the photographs/videos with him on-does he look elderly ??????

How were the puppies alone-er hello he opened the kennel door(well 2 kennel doors to be correct)to reveal puppies in kennels on their own & one kennel had food & liquid down(too poor a video to see what the liquid was)Are you suggesting someone was in the kennels with the puppies ???

Maintaining an updating a site is easy & takes only a few minutes to add hip scores, eye tests, DNA tests etc & only giving pet names for the dogs is very amateur.

Someone in the family must be able to add pedigrees to sites as the horse site has pedigrees for the horses on it !

Just butting in here again - we have [more than once] taken on two puppies - in fact at one stage we had a 9 month old pup and took on two pups from the same litter. If as a breeder you bred a litter and held back 2-3 pups for showing, what is the difference to your doing it rather than someone coming and buying two pups from the same litter. If you have an experienced dog owner I can't see the problem. Is it not better to have someone to take on two pups and will love them unconditionally all their lives than a new owner who takes on one puppy and loses interest within 6 months, 2 years etc. Not everyone who shows or works their dogs wants to breed their dogs.
B

I'm sorry but I know we haven't met maybe your mixing me up with someone else. If you've no interest in my breeding practised please don't comment on them with cstatements like "I think the lady does protest to much"
I also said at the begining of I wasnt speaking about this guy in general but at the propensity of people on here to comment negatively about breeders without the fact. Something which your statements have born out.
By the way if you think you have met me please feel free to put on here when I've met Rips and suzanne from here at a dog show and thats all.

It took me a long time to decide to sell the two pups together after loads of phone calls and two face to face interviews. The new owners came from a background with dogs (her parents had labs) but they'd waited until she semi retired to buy a dog but having researched the breed realised if they were going to be left alone for a couple of hours a day she would need two as Welshies are very social dogs.
From the moment I agreed to sell two dogs (the littlest and the biggest by the way I doubt they'll be a problem as the small dog's so timid) we were in constant contact arranging classes etc.
Ive also said if at any time they feel they can't cope I'll take a dog back and refund the money but to be honest I cant see it happening as they are both very intelligent people who know what to expect.

It doesnt matter what people may know will happen, if it does happen its the dogs that will suffer. That goes for ANY breed of dog! If breeders are selling littermates of the same sex then IMO they cannot be aware of the possible horrific problems that "can" arise from it.

Ill say again, dogs run on for showing are kept till about 6/7mths usually, dominance issues will not arise at this time, its at around a year old that they occur, sometimes later.

A friend of mine has taken 2 male Borders on from a litter, nice £1000 for the breeder who only had these two pups in the litter, she did his against my strongest advice and it left me angry, but she has owned Staffords, Boxers and crossbreeds. These pups are just 4mths old and are "scrapping" when excited, a video of this scrapping clearly shows the one pup trying to dominate the other untill it submits, when they time comes the other smaller more submissive pup has had enough and snaps back, all hell will break loose! Who will suffer? the dogs will and this breeder wont take any back I assure you!

I take your point Dawn but this couple were adamant they were getting two dogs and I'd rather they took litter mates than waiting a couple of weeks and getting another dog from a different breeder where the temprements weren't as steady as mine.
I made them aware of the pitfalls from the outset and made sure they enrolled in a training school etc.
I also promised to take one back if neccesary.
Welshies are a very strange breed in fact Ross and Lex refuse to be parted even though theres a gap of 14 mths between them, I also made sure they knew to make sure they didnt get too dependant on each other as opposed to them.

I agree with Welsh Springers being strange, I board a few. Quite timid at times, but wanting to please at the same time.

Yes when people ring up for puppies I have a list of about 50 questions there not suited to every lifestyle.

Oh yes I have met you at a show you had never been to before or since, just because you cannot remember me doesn't mean I haven't met you. LOL You even had a dog(or possibly two) entered at the show

You cannot deny that the kennels are a commercial setup & I'm sorry to say commercial breeding of dogs IMHO is not the way dogs should be bred

I dont think you have we havent shown at any champ shows for 18 months and not at open shows for two years unless you have a welshie. Even then it wouldnt have beem me with the dog it would have been my hubbie I dont show so I have to keep my distance I think your mixing me up with someone else.
Edited to add I'm only 4" 7 so quite memorable and the only open shows we've ever done have been local newarks the furthest away, and had you introduced yourself I'd have remembered you.

How strange, it appears no one is interested in my opinions - perhaps I am invisible .........