Is this how Malinois look? Photos

..what function would that be then Sue ? - I strongly disagree that the other varieties of BSD are bred without function in mind - hence the versatility of the breed, the fact that they look good is just a bonus !!

both his head and his body shape are wrong - I'm just not getting how folk can prefer this :



to this :



Azz if you are interested in either of the 2 Malinois on rescue then contact

Mrs Bonnie Wraight
Tel: 01482 667080
email: bonnie@prwraight.karoo.co.uk

Thanks for the link Murf, very interesting.

I like the second dog too, but I suppose Rambo's head appeals to me personally as he looks quite GSD-ish, and I am a GSD lover.

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

First one looks like a GSD X, to me :?

The dogs shape isn't 'wrong'. Any more than your shape is 'wrong'.

What you are saying is that in a beauty pageant it wouldn't win-------now carry my thought through!

rune

...sigh.....no Rune I'm saying it is'nt a great example of a Malinois - it's proportions are all wrong - LOOK at how long that dogs back is and how short it's legs are - those are NOT BSD proportions I agree with Jackbox this looks like a GSD X to me

here is the breed template :

http://www.hondenaus.com/malinois_breed_standard.html


Please note the 'Important Proportions' section and also note that this is the breed standard being bred for by this WORKING Malinois breeder

I agree, some BSDs these days look more like GSDs or BSDxGSD.

I prefer the look of Belgians to GSDs (although there are some GSDs that I find very attractive), I prefer the square outline and the fineness.

There are already GSDs, and other breeds, for those who like that look.

Why change the look of the BSDs to something other than BSDs? :?

In terms of behaviour of BSDs v GSDs I would describe that as dogs doing the job of a GSD in the style of a Border Collie, or as GSDs on speed and steroids (behaviourally not physically).

Some of the police handlers and trainers I had spoken to consider the Mals to be "one trick ponies" who just bite, to the gum line. However I have seen others who do very well in a variety of functions.

One handler was describing the differences as saying that if you send a GSD after a criminal it waits for you to open the van door, whereas the BSD will try to go through the door. In searching for a criminal the GSD will be in the same garden as you, the BSD will be 20 gardens ahead of you.

Generally the more experienced handlers are issued the BSDs but I gather some handers still find them difficult. I sometimes wonder if the police maybe regard them too much like GSDs, without adapting the training in any way for the behavioural differences?

I think (as Moobli said) that's what it all boils down to - what each of us prefer.

Being a long-time bull-breed lover, I would prefer (in a Mal) a less-pointy face, larger/wider head (in proportion with neck) and of course I like the agile frame of the Malinois. Basically more like a GSD but smaller

Perhaps that's not 'ideal' in terms of the breed standard, but it seems some breeders are breeding different types (perhaps more to some of our tastes?) such as in the first photo I posted as well as the one's Moobli did.

Maybe it's just a working type/show type difference? (Where some of us just happen to prefer the working type?)

I don't think you would be at all disappointed with a WL GSD, Azz

Wow! That's a detailed standard!

The problem with generalisations is that they are just that, generalisations.

For example

There is not a NATIONAL policy on police dogs in terms of how dogs are bred, minimum standards (apart from licensing annually), or how they are trained.

Each police force has its own policy.

Some have in house breeding schemes ranging from the experimental to the highly developed.

Some rely on gift dogs

Some buy puppies in from external providers and some go abroad and buy in dogs varying in age again by dog dealers etc.

Then you have puppy rearing.

Some are given to puppy walkers again whose programmes range from the very new to the very experiences.

Some are raised by the handlers.

Training has now been extended from 12 - 16 weeks in most forces.

The training varies from the MoD book circa stone age to enlightened methods where forces/nadlers/trainers are encouraged to expose themselves to others.

Then you add in a different breed. The problems that forces face with some Malinois are no different than those exposed to working line GSD for the first time. Or the difficulties faced when trying to train a Rottweiler with the same approach as a GSD.

Then handlers range from those who know literally NOTHING about dogs and those who are very educated.

I can tell you from personal first hand knowledge that many dogs go back to providers (of ALL breeds) for various reasons.

Either they are too shy, too sharp, too strong, etc etc

Malinois are not "wonder dogs" they are generally faster and more athletic than most GSDs.

They have a more independent outlook and generally have more initiative and are not so handler dependent as most GSD.

How good they are in different roles largely depends on the source and lines of the dogs.

For example, many Malinois come from Ringsport origins thus are not renowned for their tracking abilities as that is not what is sought for in these sports.

Those from Schutzhund, Pistage and other more nose related disciplines tend to produce dogs with better noses.

As in all breeds, horses for courses.

However few people in the UK have the depth of knowledge or the contacts to be able to differentiate between the different lines/kenels.

There are other factors too. But I guess these will do to begin with.

The main differences I have found in general outlook is that Malinois tend to be less environmentally sound (in general) than GSD and they tend to require a far longer socialisation and habituation period.

Of course I can only speak as an observer and as someone who has trained with many different people and their Malinois over the years.

I have not owned one myself, so I could be talking a lot of tosh!

I entirely agree with you about the generalisations Smokey Bear, but so many people who not not acquainted with them seem to think BSDs and GSDs are virtually the same breed, in terms of temperament that at least it, hopefully, helps to illustrate why that isn't the case.

Otherwise people just keep hearing vague comments denying they are the same, but virtually no explanation of how they may differ from each other

I have known a number of people consider that they will just go for the one of those two breeds that they prefer the look of, not understanding there is any difference, even in generalised potential.

Yes a bit like saying a Goldie is the same as a Lab, or a cocker is the same as a springer I guess.

Quite, without giving any indication as to how they may differ , even in generalised terms

HD in the breed worries me, tho I guess you'd expect dogs from working lines to suffer less (?)

The list that Jacquenetta normally has available is not to hand at the mo that has a list of all health tested GSD in the UK.

For Malinois see this link

http://bsdaofgb.webs.com/malinoisinfo.htm

How else do you explain the disparity between the looks of the working and show lines?

At some point, Malinois have been bred with ability for a certain job in mind, above looks and adherence to the standard. Considering the first Ringsport events were held in the early days of the breed, when they looked somewhat different to today's dogs [cf:Tjop, said to be the breed's blueprint] then it's fairly obvious. Breeders and owners have, at some point, judged their dogs on their ability and bred from those, hence the dogs we see with long backs, short legs, enormous ears and pale eyes.

However, if those dogs despite their aesthetic differences can do the work they are bred for, who are we to argue? It's no different to the differences we see between ISDS Border Collie and KC reg ones where few if any working BCs would have a hope in hell of placing at a show, and there is a question mark over the show types whether they could still herd sheep. The ISDS/KC split has come only recently, but people were selecting Malinois for Ringsport over 100 years ago.

I have seen myself a KC registered, imported, working line Malinois which has been described by another as a Tervueren, because of its long/er coat which is not typically Malinois at all. Yet this dog is descended from all the top working lines - Perle de Tourbieres, Deux Pottois, and others and line-bred to Cartouche etc. which the HondenAus site you linked to applaud as top working lines.

Yet again, on a working dog forum, I have heard people describe the look of show-type Malinois as "ugly".

It's in the eye of the beholder I would say.... I know what I like and that is the Malinois type that fits the other Belgian varieties and I find huge ears and pale eyes a big turn-off. But I also wouldn't be able to cope with the high-drive of a working line Mali regardless of looks... so I think folks need to see beyond the cosmetics and get to know the dog inside most of all.

This is Tjop - for those that have never seen him - born in 1899-






I'm not sure he'd win in a show ring nowadays, and as I don't know how he performed in Ringsport, I also don't know if his abilities would match up to present day working Malinois either.