GSDs and guarding Discussions

Well...My collie and my spaniel are gobby, but not guardy (if that makes sense) But heaven help anyone who broke into the house or car is Kerrie was present.

I have no idea if its part of her breeding (X breed, but I suspect some Shepherd of sorts) or due to her past (she was rescue) but bizarrely, I find it calming to know we are protected

My rescue is gobby as hell with people near the car/coming to the door but he would not protect me or property if push came to shove, he would run off.

My working line is the opposite. He is noisy (although probably less than Shilah) but he means it.

Someone wanted to prove to me that 'sport/pet' dogs dont protect for real and had someone put on a bite suit and try and attack me, Kofi has never seen a suit before but he took the person out and I think they were a bit shocked.

He has a naturally high defence drive, sometimes a bit too high to be honest. He is the same with Shilah, he watches us both like a hawk and if he senses anything that makes us uncomfortable then he wants to deal with the situation.

I love him to bits and I do like the security he gives me knowing that he would protect me, but it also puts me on edge a bit, I would prefer him to be a bit less sharp if I'm honest but a lot of that might stem from the fact we have lived alone in isolated places.

He is still sociable, he is fine walking through a crowd, sitting outside at a pub etc. But say someone stops to chat to me out on a hillside with no one around, and we are talking for a few minutes and then maybe he raises his walking stick over my head to point out something....that raising the stick towards me is likely to cause Kofi to react. So it's things like that I need to watch.

As I have said previously, unless a dog is actually trained (and tested) in protection then there is absolutely no way of guessing how he/she might react to a real threat. I think many dogs would leg it (even the big, guardy types) especially if they also got a wallop.

A dog is more likely to "protect" if it is on the lead, as it has no choice of flight.

That is really interesting about Kofi - as though he feels he needs to be in charge of the situation.

I did wonder whether Zak might get a bit more guardy/protective when he had been with me for a while, as we live in a remote place and often walk in isolated spots and don't see that many people on a day to day basis. However, he hasn't changed at all - and he would happily allow someone to approach me when out and have a chat. If someone raised their walking stick though, he might think it was a toy and try to grab it

It is funny really, because Yogi looks like the big teddy bear, but he is the protective one; Zak looks quite scary to some people, yet he has the teddy bear personality.

My pup, now 7/8 months old has taken it upon himself to warn us of anything in front of our house. He will bark if he hears a fox or anything at all. A few weeks ago the milkman who delivers to next door decided to drop off a couple of bottles at 04.10 on Saturday morning, well you would have thought we were under imminent attack with the racket Kodi made. He now applies the same guard instinct to deliveries, postman etc. All of this is instinctive, we have not taught him any guarding behaviour, just the opposite.

The other question to have considered is if neutering made any difference?

As regards personal protection, we had an "incident" where a man was working on a water main across from our house. It was a warm day so he had removed the top of his overalls but was still wearing the bottoms making him look very strange. I was washing the car and Kodi was playing his usual game of steal the sponge, well this man decided to walk slowly over and pet the puppy, unfortunately Kodi didn't like or understand his shape and slow advance so went into guard mode. And I do not mean just barking and retreating. It was like watching General Custer being surrounded by the Sioux, he just kept going round this man barking and threatening and taking a position between the man and myself. I had to grab his collar to take him back in the house, the man looked shaken and I explained about my theory of the overalls.

Kodi is normally fine with everyone but is very aware when a persons behaviour doesn't seem normal, ie walking very slowly or stopping to use a cell phone and his awareness is heightened at night. I reassure him which usually works.

I was walking Ollie and our other dogs in some woods about 3 years ago. The other dogs were deep in the undergrowth and Ollie was monitoring my ball pocket from a polite distance. My OH was out on his mountain bike, covered in mud, wearing a helmet, goggles and gloves. He saw me coming in the distance and hid behind a bush and came running out shouting and waving his arms like a lunatic. Ollie flew at him barking and growling. Nic ran backwards and Ollie pinned him against a tree. After a second or two Ollie realised who it was and stopped growling and started wagging his tail. Nic said he was really scared that Ollie wouldn't recognise him and would start taking chunks out of him. I was very glad that Ollie sprang into action, but that he didn't use his teeth.

There was another incident where I was (again) walking the dogs alone in some woods. A man was walking towards me and Ollie didn't like the look of him, maybe because I didn't either. He kept himself between the man and me as the man approached, walked past and the walked away. It was pure passive aggression and it would have been very foolish to try and get past him.

Ollie is not an aggressive dog and those are the only two incidents involving people in his 5 years. He has decked other dogs though for running straight at me.

Our first gsd barked when people approached the house but was quite happy and sociable when we invited visitors in. When we were out I would quite often notice her putting herself in between us and whatever she thought might be a bit dodgy, e.g. if a group of kids rode by on bikes, but she would stand down as soon as it was clear there was no threat. However, one evening my OH was out walking with her when a gang of teenagers started harassing him and were quite aggressive. Sasha put herself in between him and the kids, puffed herself up and lifted her lip, no barking, no lunging, but it was sufficient to suggest to them that they should be on their way pretty quick. Don't know what she would have done if they hadn't taken the hint but I believe that she behaved entirely appropriately.

Dido barks when someone comes up the drive to the house but in a friendly waggy tale sort of a way. Enfys, who is nervous and flighty goes ballistic and screamy so I don't think anyone would really try to get past her but she will quieten down when told to and is friendly when we invite people in. Phoebe never barks, she'll stand at the gate and watch quietly and is very friendly and happy to meet peopl who come in. If she's indoors when someone arrives she quite often won't even go to investigate but will stay with me until I go to the door. I sometimes wonder if she stays with me to keep an eye on me. I don't think she's guarding as such because she has no worries or suspicions about people coming to the door.

As I mentioned in the family dog/home protection thread, Trent does not have a strong protective instinct when it comes to the house. I believe that it is because he does not perceive the house as "his" to protect as I've made it clear before that the house, the toys, the furniture, and even the guests and dogs that enter the property under my welcome are "mine" (to correct resource guarding behaviors during his adolescence).

He does not alert to anyone walking past our house and at most, he will watch them go past our property in semi-interest. Those who walk to our doorstep or let themselves in themselves will receive a loud, steady series of barking. Less of a warning bark, more of a reactive, alert bark. He has a tendency to park himself in front of said person and bark into their faces, but with no amount of wariness or suspicion. He makes fast friends with many of our guests and the mail man and delivery men always go out of their way to greet him and are incredibly fond of him.

Trent has always been more of a watcher than a do-er, and I doubt he would ever show aggression towards those who step on the property in my absence. Make a big show of barking? Only upon entry, but beyond that, nothing else. In the car, he is the same. He is often left in the car (our weather is always moderate) for a few minutes when I run errands and keeps quiet despite the large numbers of people and other cars going by.

As far as protection goes, I know he would choose fight over flight under almost any circumstance if it were me he was protecting. I choose to say "protect" in place of "guard" because if someone spoke to me loudly and waved a stick at me (from a previous member's example) but I was completely at ease, Trent would probably glance up and wait for them to throw the stick so he could fetch it.

On the other hand, should I feel threatened or worried/frightened in any way, he feeds off of that and would react (and HAS reacted) accordingly, placing himself right into the "threat's" face and sending out a very low, growl and bark. We have had a few false alarms and Trent has promptly met the perceived threat each time, and then turned "off" at my call. Because he reacts more to MY emotions and perceptions rather than his own, I tend to see it more as protective behavior than guarding, if I had to chose between the two. When he was an adolescent, he had shown some guard-y behaviors that I immediately addressed, as I do not wish any dog of mine to see me as a resource to guard. Mostly, he just had to grow his brain a bit to catch up and balance out his drives/instincts .

As a whole, he is a self possessed, confidant, fairly easy going, aloof dog with a low level of suspicion. Only wary when I am, happy to let strangers through the front door, and a dog I take everywhere with me. His behaviors were never taught or encouraged, for the matter - they were simply never corrected unless it was a behavior I was not okay with.

A bit of both, although I believe genetics plays the largest part. My dog has strong defensive drives and a good dose of natural aggression, but also a balanced enough mind and solid nerves to be confidant enough to not feel wary of his surroundings and be okay with deferring to me.

I think it depends from dog to dog - my dog's sense of protectiveness stems from that genetic ability and desire to connect with and feed off of his handler's emotions, as well as his natural reactive aggression. The fact that he shows aggression only when appropriate and displays the ability to discern between threats and nonthreats is also inherent, with the help of my guidance (despite all the fumbling on my part). He does not automatically go into aggressive displays because he rarely feels threatened and is self confidant and stable. That, and the lack of sharpness and the presence of higher thresholds (also genetic).

I also think a lot of it depends on what type of guarding/protective/defensive behaviors the dog is displaying, as often times fearful reactions can be read as protectiveness or appropriate aggression when really the owner's (or whoever is making the assessment) perception and the dog's mindset are completely different. Sometimes a dog lashing out in fear or anxiety is called a good guard dog by its owner, when it's really poor genetics, a lack of proper socialization + training, improper handling of the dog AND situations, or all of the above.

I remember watching a video VERY similar to the family dog home protection one, also from a news channel and also showing a man in a bite suit entering houses to "test" dogs... the last dog tested was a German Shepherd Dog that the owner bought specifically for protection (forgot if it was personal or property protection). I THINK the owner stated that the dog was kept away from guests, etc. and he seemed adamant that the dog would fiercely protect the house. While the dog did snarl, bark, and even go for a nip/bite, a lot of people viewing the video pointed out that the display was still more fearful than anything - that even a dog that does not choose flight mode can still act in fear/anxiety.

Absolutely. While real life situations have shown that my dog will react aggressively if I feel threatened, there is no saying how he would do against the threat. I can hypothesize at his initial reaction, but not at how he will follow up if he is actually challenged by the threat, and especially if he was being attacked physically - and that goes for almost any untrained/untested dog.