Greyhound racing industry breeder disposes of puppies that wont chase! Controversial

Galty.
You will find millions of people against animal testing, yet every single one of them would NOT refuse ANY treatment to their pets nor themsleves, no thought to these dogs then is there??

Think this does happen

Heather and Zak.
Galty is correct. How do you think these "top" breeders are constantly top? They keep producing puppies, show them, if they dont make the grade, they sell them or if bitches usually breed from them then sell them on, its normal, common place.

Well now that’s a well thought out response to some of the issues raised and questions asked of you.

Arh so you don’t give a stuff about cruelty – why didn’t you just say so.

Right so because some dogs are treated badly all dogs should be for research – tell you what when you offer up yours maybe I’ll believe you!

I have no problem with dogs that have already be pts because of genuine reason and once the owner has given consent being used for research – what I give a stuff about is puppies that have never had a chance being used to make money from in such circumstances.

Im not sure what human medical research is going to be furthered by a vets college actually. Or do you mean you wont put dogs before peoples idea of entertainment?

If you really don’t give a stuff about the dogs – why on earth are you so active in these threads? Why do you feel the need to get so angry and upset because others do actually care about the dogs why not just let them get on with it instead of accusing people of acts of terrorism and ranting on about other peoples opinions being crap?

Your sick of it of defending the industry – so stop! No one is forcing you to read our posts, no one is forcing you to respond, no one is forcing you to care about animals. But do not expect other to stop raising awareness of the problems just to suit you.

You’ve given your opinions and stated things as facts and thrown accusations around and now go off on one when people ask you to clarify or back up your statements.

Galty as Pickering is one of the largest producers in the UK of greyhounds surely he must be making a whole lot of money for himself and the industry. No the the whole sport is not down to him – however the industry is responsible for supposedly ensuring this does not go on – yet it still does nothing and still has no way of ensuring the rules are upheld.

I have looked at the site and have seen the responses that have been allowed to stay on there – I also, however saw the responses that the admin decided to remove – regarding the conditions of dogs and facilities. I also see a few people condemning the act and confirming the fact that the ruling body never checks up on what has happened to retired greyhounds. Is this really the perfect sporting industry you make it out to be or are you another like Dawn who doesn’t give a stuff about the dogs involved?

Again I refuse to rise to the silly name calling, if it makes you feel better to insult anyone who disagrees with you carry on, it reflects more on you than anyone else.

My sympathys however on having to reboot to man u!

Galty as I have already stated I have no problem with animals that have been euthanaised for legitmate reasons not just to make a quick buck out of them.

Also I would rather any medical facility whether vet or human got their animals from the correctly licensed premises and that are inspected regularly under the Scientific Procedures Act and not some dubious puppy farmer

Strangely enough, I think its the humans that do the research!;-) I do not put animals before them and as they are the key to the research they are doing, then thats fine by me.

I would rather they trained on those dogs than mine xx

Spot

A fair reply, at last you make some good points.


The conditions have for the last three or fours years have been critized(sp) nothing do with the sport down to the local council.

I relly do hope that there will be an INDEPENDENT welfare set up that encompasses the whole of this great sport from birth to death, to many involved at the present time.


Ps As I have said before dont think calling any one a Tree Hugger is an inslut, think it just pigeon holes them to a certian type.

LIKE HEATHER MILLS MAC

An honest reply Bajaluna, and I expect every one else feels the same, I know I do.

There you go again, did I say I didnt give a stuff if the dogs were used for research after being humanely PTS? Think I did you know, NOT that I didnt give a stuff about the dogs full stop!! Dear oh dear.;-) When a Dog is dead, does it matter? Its when they are alive they should be treated properly, and a fair number of failed racers are not, that is why I 100% agree with, if they are to be PTS, id rather it be done humanely and if their organs are used to further research, then so be it, cant see the big problem here?

MY two penneth for what it's worth.

I think the industry is disgusting allowing so many dogs to be bred from knowing many of them will never go to good homes nor caring where they end up.

Having said that there are many, many puppy farmers of everyday dogs doing exactly the same thing and earning just as much if not more of designer breeds and KC reg breeds, many who also have Licences to breed ! Some of these puppy farmers produce in excess of 300 dogs per year that are registered and god knows how many that are crossbreeds and unregistered ! Some live in squalid conditions, most are unsociable to humans having rarely had social interaction. Most aren't health tested, none are cared about, Some are abused, ALL end up being sold to just anyone with no care or afterthought as to their future or welfare and many, many end up very sick !

The law allows them to do so, the BRS proves they do so, yet no-one stands outside their premises with plaquards telling them to stop doing it ! Why is this ?

Harrods sell puppies, whos policy was never to actually give a breed name to any puppies, just sell them as puppies, even though their breed was sometimes obvious, at ridiculous prices and usually from puppy farms who could supply litters on demand, when they were selling roughly 400 puppies per week ! Why is no-one standing outside there with plaquards telling Mr Al-Fayed to stop ?

The racing industry is sad and lucrative and cruel and ....and...and...and, but so are many other establishments that dont get the media attention ! If the media are so outraged by it, it's about time the Media focused on ALL the people that trade the same way !

A few months ago Foggo had and artical about John Oconner at the Greyhound Clinic that sold body parts.


4 Years ago I took a bitch to this Vet She was 14 years old she had cancer of the bone I had her MURDED(accourding to some) by this vet, he asked if her body could be used in resurch.

I agreed that some of you must think what a callus ******* I must be.

Its no different to offering your own body for research after you have died, you are responsible for that, you are responsible for your dog.

Excellent point!

Copy of Mr.Pickerings Statement on XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Dear Greyhound XXXXXXXXXXXX,
For several years I have sung the praises of the website you have created, built and nurtured. It is a magnificent and enormous undertaking and clearly must require vast amounts of your time. That you are constantly improving and adding new dimensions to an already mind-blowing site is a tremendous asset for the greyhound world. I find many aspects invaluable and am extremely grateful for the work you all do and the service you generously provide.

The Forum pages are of great interest. I have learned from people all around the world, as I explore your site at any time of the evening or early morning when I get a spare moment. Like all sites, it can be addictive and I try - though often fail - to limit my time reading the views and advice of others. . The addictive element, alongside family and work commitments, led me to make the decision when I first discovered your site that I could not participate in the forum debates. Unfortunately, I find I cannot make available the required amount of time.

Now the problem. I find it impossible to defend myself or my staff, if I believe comments are made that I feel are unfair, unjust or simply untrue, without joining the thread.

I am a defender of free speech. Everyone has a right to their opinion and provided it is within the law, to express that opinion. Perhaps that means that you choose to allow any comment, however damaging or derogoratory it may be to an individual or a business. Perhaps matters of libel are to be left to individuals to persue through the civil courts. The difficulty arises when a thread is allowed to damage an individual and no effective defence is possible, for the above reasons. The site can then be hijacked by those with a hidden adgenda, in an attempt to destroy someone's reputation and livelihood and put at risk the jobs of loyal staff.

Until now, I have chosen to say nothing even when debates take a robust and challenging turn. If I am not prepared to comment and will not allow my staff to defend me or themseves, then views with which any of us disagree must go unchallenged. This policy is particularly frustrating for staff, who treat their work as a passion, not just as a job. Some of the comments recently have made a key member of staff phisically ill.

The Forum thread ' Zig Zag Kennels, Sunday Times', is a particularly difficult instance for me. Do I continue in silence and allow the content of the article to go unchallenged, or must I spend several hours a day, in an attempt to talk to everyone on the site? At present, I feel some members of the Forum thread believe they have scented blood in the water, and the sharks are circling and indulging in a feeding frenzy, tearing flesh from bone at will and with uncontained and uncontrolled glee.

These members may be disappointed by the facts.

Early last week I was telephoned by Mr. Eddie McCredi, who stated he was Head of Department of the Veterinary Section, University of Bristol. Mr. McCredi explained that his counterpart at Liverpool University had informed him that Mr. Fielding, a trainer based near Blackpool , had sent retired dogs to Liverpool to be euthanased and used for veterinary education purposes. I confirmed that Mr. Fielding raced dogs for me. I explained that any dealings with Liverpool University were solely carried out by Mr. Fielding, not by me. Mr. McCredi said he was authorised to purchase greyhounds for £30 and that they would be euthanased by their own vet and used for teaching purposes. I said that we rehomed all of our greyhounds except those too aggressive to be safe in a family environment. Reluctantly, there is no alternative other than to have those potentially dangerous dogs put to sleep by our local vet and it seemed better if they could be of value in the teaching of young vets, to !
give them hands-on experience and further their knowledge. McCredi then told me he had been lying to me and was in fact working for the Sunday Times. and his name was Daniel Foggo. He invited me to comment and gave me his email address. I gave him the following statement by email, which he chose not to publish in his article:- "No dog, of any breed, has ever been sent by me, or anyone authorised by me. to any veterinary university or scientific establishment of any kind, to be used for veterinary education or for any other purpose."

That is the simple truth.

I then contacted Mr. Fielding, who has raced several of my greyhounds over the last few months at Belle Vue. He explained that ten retired dogs, owned by him, had been sent to Liverpool University prior to my dogs arriving at his kennels. He had also been contacted by Mr. Foggo, masquerading as Mr. McCredi. of Bristol University. Mr. Fielding made it quite clear to Mr. Foggo that he had only ever sent ten dogs, all of which were his own dogs. Mr. Foggo asked him again if any of the dogs were mine and again Mr. Fielding told him they were not. These facts can readily be confirmed by anyone who chooses, by contacting Liverpool University, where records of the earmarks and the day the dogs arrived will be held.

Mr. Foggo appears to have a very clear agenda of splitting apart the greyhound industry with the aim of closing down racing in Britain. He has already cleverly sparked a very public and uncontrolled attack on one breeder and his staff. He will get no further, as I always refuse to comment in public, other than favourably, about anyone whether friend, colleague, competitor, customer, governing body or adversary. That means he will soon attack elsewhere, appearing in any guise. Friends of greyhound racing; be on your guard.

We will continue to strive to improve every aspect of our enterprise, with welfare of the greyhounds paramount.

Yours sincerely,

Charles Pickering
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What a shambles! We are told so many times about the media hype and yet again we see a twisted version of events poured out to propell more negative propaganda.

Thanks for that post Galty.

Please excuse the multiple quotes but I only have a limited time on computer at the moment.

I would ask this question again Dawn.

Well I guess horses arent that important either then.

Why is it a lucky escape Dawn I thought this industry was whiter than white in your eyes - you've defended it often enough and not once as far as I remember have you said it has problems.

But do they sell perfectly healthy young dogs to be killed, or do they take them off to Seaham?

Yes well I would rather they trained on your dogs than mine!

My response earlier Also I would rather any medical facility whether vet or human got their animals from the correctly licensed premises and that are inspected regularly under the Scientific Procedures Act and not some dubious puppy farmer

But Galty the industry has been in this state for years and has still yet to do anything about it let alone let and independant welfare board to be set up - its been actively discouraged in fact.

Can I ask what type you consider sad or bags or both?

But what you consider humanely PTS and what most consider is very different Dawn – you stated (and yes Galty Im being a sad bag) that you saw nothing wrong with what was happening in Seaham – even some in the industry had a big problem with that one!

How is treating a dog properly raising it to a few months and then killing it?

Ive already stated I have no problem with dogs being pts for legit reason – ill health etc used to further research

Totally agree Malady but 2 wrongs do not make a right. There were protests outside Harrods actually and many petitions against puppy farming - something Dawn would not allow!

Dawn you said Mal's point was excellent even highlighting the paragraph yet you disagree with people protesting outside establishments?

There is a huge move against puppy farms, unfortunately it is very difficult to protest outside these establishments as they are very often very secretive and in remote locations.

I totally agree with you regarding the media focusing on all forms of abuse, I also wish the KC would do more about puppy farmers than put them on their accredited breeder scheme! Again another ruling body that seems to care very little about dogs and more about money.

Galty I don’t see where anyone has said having a dog PTS on health issues is wrong or callous – if they have show me.


What a pity mr pickering didn’t clean up his act a long time ago and decrease his breeding programme to enable to run his facility correctly or put the money his dogs have earnt him into his facilites and staffing problems. What did those within the industry do about it?

Perhaps he can show the records of where all the other dogs went?

Is selling them to spain accepted by those in the industry when it is well documented what happens over there?

Now Im off to feed my hounds who by all accounts should be on a slab in a morge.

Galty hope you get over your man u problem.

Absolutely agree with this, T.

I agree. The KC should be held accountable for allowing the registering of so many puppies especially when they know and have evidence of people breeding unscrupulously and/or curelly.

I think the Media should highlight all forms of pupy farming for whatever purposed, including the breeders that breed greys for racing and shame the lot of them !