Got my Rotts pedigree today... General Chat

not really, I have a bite dog, but not in as much as my neck would depend on my dog, my dog does it for fun, he couldnt sustain that level of work over long spells,
and its kaos whos trained for that sort of thing not vinnie.. diff lines,
working dogs need far more oooomph

Hi Hayleybella

The police have a different type of dog they are looking for - i'm on other forums and it is said that one handler went through 9-15 dogs to find one he could handle and it is also known that dogs have been returned back to the breeders because they were too high drive and couldn't be handled by the people they were given to.

We have a lot of police dog people on here who will hopefully be able to jump in on this one.

A police dog is required to do a bit more in regards to a security dog on the 'soft front' so a high prey drive dog would not go down overly well. Apart from which - i think (me personally) that the calibre of new dog handlers has gone slightly downhill and also that they don't get enough time to bond with a dog before asking it to work for them.

As a security dog handler - you are almost 100% on your own - you need a dog that will do defense of the handler for real - it's not a game - you may be seriously injured if you have a dog with a weakness. The police have backup available if needed.

but is it required over long spells? even a working dog isn't going to be getting real bites regularly. I would have though most of the time the Dog is more a deterrant than anything else.

Sorry I thought Vinnie was clicker trained, sure I had watched a video of him doing clicker with Kaos.

A good example would be Shona's Kaos (don't shoot me shona!!)

He does a bit of bite work - but still not a dog i would take on the street as a permanent job.

He does what is asked - but that is because he has been tasked to do it (mum has asked him), some dogs just have a natural ability to 'know what needs to be done' - i don't know if it was real life that he would stand up to the job - thats not a slur as he sure looks the part but again, he is a very trustworthy dog who i don't think would be a good security dog in a business sense.

Yes you can clicker train to do bite work - but a lot of that is sport based.

yes he is clicker trained,

but he would need more than that to make a security dog.

your right the dog wouldnt be needed to be biting people for 8hrs a day, but there are so many other things needed in a security dog, patrol work and so on,
it would be handy if they were awake for some of it, lol
poor vinnie, its well documented on here what a duffus vinnie is, but in the sweetest possible way.

Hi Hayleybella

the last thing you want as a security dog handler is actually for your dog to get a 'live' bite.

You always train for it though and the continuation training is as realistic as possible - or should be to keep your dog switched on and also the handler.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't do this and wonder why there dog won't work when it is needed to.

Would you say ANY BC could be trained to work sheep? Or ANY JRT trained to rat? You can lead a horse to water as they say, same difference really.

This might be of interest...



A typical example...

Awww poor Vinnie and Kaos - we're not picking on them - i just thought they were good examples having met them

It is a compliment - honestly. I'm sending them both huge hugs so the first thing they do isn't bite me when we next catch up, lol

Yes Police do have back up if required that goes without saying!

I am wondering who the police dog people on here are now!

At the end of the Day this dog is still a youngster and who knows how it will pan out for him and how strong a bond the two of them have, and how he responds to his training. It Just looks like everyone is being really down on Callum and his hopes for Danny when we should be offering support.

A very good example!! I saw that a while ago and i felt for that poor copper - he must have been appalled, gutted, furious, embarrassed - all emotions to be honest - that dog should never have been put on the street.

My breeding was never ment to be used in work, what will be will be with callum and danny, I would never assist / support anyone to train any of my breeding for bite work, its not a personal thing, my view is if you have the knowlage to handle the dog you dont need my help training it,.

I will however assist / support him in dannys every day training and life

I think with respect hayleybella, Shona knows this dogs lines ,and will know whether or not they produce the character of a true working dog.. as she has been in the business for so long , she will understand exactly the type of dog and its temperament that is needed for such work

And I am only guessing, but I would think, with the history that 1) Callum gave of the dog 2) finding out the dogs breeding... she is concerned that yet again this dog will be looking for a new home, as Callum has already stated , if it does not make a guard dog, he will move it on.

If Callum gets it wrong with this boy, he may end un being hard if impossible to rehome.

So I can understand Shonas concern and frustration... I would trust her judgment 100% , regarding this situation.

I do hope things work with Callum and Danny but from my point of view - if Danny wasn't going to make it security wise then he should never be taught to bite. Callum has already stated this so it's not being down on Callum at all - just my opinion.

A dog trained to bite is a weapon and lethal in the wrong hands.

Sure i train dogs to do bitework but control is a must - if i had a dog with the wrong temperament then there is no way i would train it for bitework. I WOULD NOT teach joe bloggs off the street to teach their dog to bite and i have actually had to refuse people who have me asked to.

What a terrible situation for Callum and Shona to find themselves in, I feel sorry for both of you, but if you keep talking and put the dog first I'm sure something can be worked out.

One question for Callum - I read it that you work in security, perhaps you are often alone patrolling deserted industrial sites so if the trainning doesn't look like it's progressing you really wouldn't want to carry on with him would you you could either keep him as your family pet (and get another dog for working purposes) or return him to Shona.

Obviously I don't know your personal circumstances and if you could afford to take on a familly pet, but it would be nice if you could say that you would do that. I am also making an assumption that your security guarding business only has a need for one dog right now, is that correct

Otherwise, since it's looking like he may not be suitable for security work, it would be better to hand him over to Shona now. Bear in mind your business will grow over time and you might need more working dogs and there's no one anywhere in Uk better qualified to help you with that need than Shona.

Shona, I really feel for you, it sure must have been a shock to find out what has happened, it seems like the first owner wasn't being honest with the breeder and people are often like that, so the breeder was conned, it may be history now but that doesn't stop you from worrying. Hope you're feeling a bit calmer tonight.

PMSL at this. A perfect example.

Out of our BC's, Skye knows exactly what to do with sheep, she has a natural born instinct.

Bruce would however think it was another dog and want it to play chase...only the sheep chase him and Reah, would be ''me work, round that up, I don't think so''

and vinnies currently laying in the corner soooking on the inside of a loo roll,

I didn't mean 'support' as in offering assitance in training the Dog, I meant support as in the kind of support we give to any member daily like 'good luck' or 'hope your dog gets better soon' etc, the overall feeling I get from this thread is people desperate for the dog and handler to fail.

As I appear to be up against the Shona fan club I'll say no more and again duck out dissapointed with Dogsey.

We have one cat sucking a blanket and one dog fast asleep with a rubber bone toy in his mouth as we speak

I dont think its really like that,

as a breeder I have a diff outlook on thing to those who dont breed,

Im responsible for that dog untill the day he dies, it is well documented all over the web I take my breeding back, be that a pups sold by me from my bitch, or those of my stud dog.

its my job to do whats right by him, so if I feel a working home may not be right then I will say so, no matter what people feel about it.

keep in mind, if callum does re home that dog, he is still my breeding thus that dog could come back to me at any time, whos to say he will not have another 4 homes under his belt by then.,