German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) Discussions

We also thought her colour and markings were very different, but a lot of black/sable dogs all have identical markings to her which I find quite strange? There is a dog not far from us, who is identical to her colourwise and actual markings, and yet these are not true gsd colours are they? I would be interested to know about this too if you can enlighten me please! Quote

Certainly sables are true GSD colours, but to breed a sable at least one of the parents needs to be a sable. Interestingly sables are born sable & get darker coats as they get older. All other GSDs are born black & their colours slowly develop. A black is also a permissable colour & they are shown but they are not common.

I would say Cassie is a bicolour, Helen - and so is very much an accepted GSD colour

BTW, I have heard of a longcoat, bicolour male looking for a home. He is an ex-police dog and lived as part of the family for the last few years. Apparently he is gorgeous and very, very well trained. Interested? ;-)

Stop it Moobli!!!!! I've already been there with that Traybabe's young male she wants to find a home for, and hubby said an emphatic no on that one!!! Shame, coz if we weren't in the current circumstances of having the house revamped going into the loft in a couple of weeks, I probably would have jumped at the chance! I never listen to what Dave says anyway!!!!

Thanks for that info GSDSue, it is my black/sable one I'm on about not my white one. It's nice to know that she is in fact a recognisable colour then, I really didn't know that, but the fact that she's very longcoated makes her a throw-out anyway! I didn't want a black, I didn't particularly like the all-blacks or black/sable, but of course when I saw her I just fell in love with the little furry creature.

A friend of mine had a truly magnificent all-black, but we were only young (19 ish) and she just couldn't hold on to him when he got to about 6 months,he was incredibly big and strong, so sadly she had to part with him. Looking back, it's a good job she did really, as I think these dogs need to have someone in charge who knows what they're doing with them.

Thanks Moobli, like I said, I didn't think any of the blacks were an accepted colour, I really didn't! You learn something every day!

Please don't call him a throw out, he may not be suitable for showing but thats not the most important thing is it. His temperament matters more. After all only about 4% of the GSds bred will be suitable for breed showing , what mattered to me when I was breeding litters was that they made good pets & & didn't carry tpp many similar lines which may have lead to problems like epilepsy. Also in the later days to use animals that were hipscored & haemophilia tested. Problems may still occur but at least then one feels one has done all one can to supply a healthy in mind & body puppy

If this is the one in your avatar, she looks to be a tanpoint (GSD people call bicolour as Moobli said) not sable.

Sable is quite different, as Sue says, born lighter coloured than black & tans, and gradually darkens with age. There is a very dark version of sable that is sometimes called black sable and this occurs mostly in the East German bloodlines.

This puppy here and both parents -

http://hometown.aol.com/altostland/peter-heidi.html

Hm where did this come from ? Sable is not a colour but a colour pattern ie Grey Sable, Gold Sable but a GSD cannot just be a Sable. Also the myth that whatwever colour sable you have one parent must be have sable markings isn't correct either, neither the other myth that all GSDs other than "Sables"are born black(except the non standard incorrect colours like the biscuit/blues etc)

We had a German Black & Gold import who produced grey sables in nearly every litter yet he was only ever mated to one grey sable bitch. His non sable marked offspring were all either born black & stayed black or born black & gold & stayed black & gold. Another stud dog I had was almost a bi colour her was so dark & he was born black & very deep red gold, all his puppies were either black or black & gold & they were all born the colour they ended up as as adults.

I have a friend in Germany who mated her black & gold bitch to a very dark black & gold dog & she produced a whole litter of very dark grey sables ! The last litter she has bred was by a very dark gey sable from her younger black & gold bitch(no relative to her other bitch)the puppies were either both very dark grey sable or dark black & red gold. As the grey sables matured the actually lightened up !

Sorry, I didn't really mean it to sound like that, it's just a general term I have been used to hearing for all the longcoated gsd's! Of course it's the temperament that matters most of all, and the health of the dog. Funnilly enough though, since I am now on my 6th gsd companion, I have never once had any of them suffering with any of the problems that you have them health tested for, i.e. hip displacia, tpp, heamophillia, or epilepsy, and yet I have now ended up with 2 of them with major problems, i.e. one has EPI (a specific gsd problem no less) and a severe skin condition with the other (white one). I find it strange that somehow breeders aren't able to erradicate the epi problem?? Four of my previous dogs have reached a ripe old age of 16 none of them showing any signs of hip displacia or anything else come to that!

I'm very interested in these different colour markings, and I have just dug out Cassie's pedigree, which states, yes, she is a bi-colour. I don't know if you're interested to know, but her Sire was a bi-colour, and her dam was black? The next generation back funnilly enough were black and gold, bi-colour, white (!!), and black!! Another interesting point is, her sire was an explosives search dog (operational), so no wonder she's so smart as well as so beautiful!

*Drool* I for one love the look of the black and black sable. The darker the coloring the better for me. I have a friend with a Black and Red import from France that is just smashing!

Hmmm that's being a bit over-pedantic Joedee :? 'Sable' is often the term used to describe this pattern as a colour in Shepherds and other breeds. For a Rough Collie you wouldn't say "red sable & white" would you? It's just 'sable & white.'

And if we want to be really fussy, it isn't sable at all.... it's wolf sable. The GSD people have just used this term 'sable' instead.

This is correct as far as standard colours are concerned, the only exception being white/cream which can produce sable mated to a non sable.

This isn't normal at all. Three explanations I can think of.

1/One of the Black & tans has been miss-identified and is sable.

2/A mutation has occured (very rare).

3/There is a sable dog nearby who is good at jumping fences.

Quote"3/There is a sable dog nearby who is good at jumping fences."

ROFL!!!!!!!!!

There are two different colours of sable here, if you look at her lower legs, there's quite a range of sables going on there, and yet the sable on her chest is quite white in real life?!



Just a good excuse to post another pic of my beauty!!

Sorry but your bitch is a black & gold not a sable of any colour

This is a grey sable

​

This is a Black & Gold as is the dog below him

​

& this is the first GSD registered with the SV(the German GSD register) & yes Horand was a grey sable

​

This is a paling black & gold

​

Nope Helena. This another black & tan bicolour. Sable is more of an all over pattern without the distinctive tan points. I'll look for some good photos

Sorry but my friend & I are not the type of people to allow our bitches to be mated by any old dog & there is no such colour as "wolf"sable this was a term used between the wars when for a short period of time the GSD was incorrectly called an "Alsatian Wolf Dog"& a GSD is not a Rough Collie & colour descriptions for different breeds are not always the same(for example a brown & white BC is called a red & white, the same colour in a cavalier is blenheim, the dsame colour in ESS is liver & white !

I don't know how long you have been involved with GSDs but I got my first one in 1958 & she was all german breeding & I have never owned a dog with any "English lines" since then. I know the breed standard as it is in Germany(after all the GSD is a German Shepherd not an English breed)

I quote the German Breed Standard

I don't see any"wolf"sable at all

BTW if you read my signature my name is not Joedee but Dyane

If you scroll down this page there's photos of different types of sable.

http://www.kerstoneshepherds.net/colors/colors2.htm

Er no Bicolours have no white on them at all & are black & tan(a bit like a black & tan american cocker)the bitch in the photograph is black & gold

Aren't they american ? the "black"sable isn't a black sable but a grey sable

:smt017 Well I WAS enjoying this thread!!!!:?

Jodee you say bi-colours have no white in them? Do you mean no white in the mottled effect, or do you mean they should have no white on them at all, because my dog has got white on her chest and inside all four legs, it's pretty darn white! Not forgetting in her breeding we have a pure white dog????:?

Thanks Pod I found that very interesting anyways!

As I don't know you or your friend, miss mating is a possibility that I didn't rule out. Even the best breeders do occasionally have these anyway

Gosh no! Wolf sable is a very well known colour in dogs and not specific to any particular breed. It occurs in many many breeds apart from the GSD... eg Swedish Vallhund, Elkhound, German Spitz, Keeshond etc etc. GSD people may not use the term 'wolf' but the gene is the same thoughout these breeds.

'Sable' is used in Collies the same as Shepherd and many other breeds to describe a colour pattern. There are many variations of colour teminology throughout the breeds.

Congratulations Dyane.

Wolf sable is the term for the 'gene' that gives this pattern. There is a different gene for sable which probably doesn't occur in the breed at all. The gene is given the symbol aw; w is for 'wolf' because this is the wild type colour that occurs in the wolf. There are various other terms for this gene eg wild type, grey sable, agouti. Have a read here it should explain more -

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/agouti.html

My apologies, I didn't realise you objected to being called your Dogsey name.