Genetic diversity, wolfdog and wolfdog crosses in the uk Discussions

I'm more concerned about 'who do you believe'? Ive given two quotes showing both sides of allagations at present, ive removed names but can verify links to Dogsey moderators if any doubts as to authenticity.

First one.

fact 1 I am only one of the people to give evidence in the case, fact 2 it has taken yrs to put together all evidence,fact 3 most evidence comes from members of DUTCH KENNEL CLUB,,,and other witnesses,, fact 4 it concerns your breed interests not mine, but at least i can say i done something to help the Saarloos breed and help preserve it, it is obvious you havnt a clue just how close this wonderful breed is to major disaster in Europe so therefor i must state that infact you really dont know what goes on with the Saarloos wolfhound at all, if you did then you have funny way of showing any concern about it, i know lots of Saarloos breeders and they all know about the cross breeding, false registering ba**ard dogs, health problems created in France, and yet you have not,,,,, very strang indeed,, Two questions only for you to answer,,, HOW MANY PURE BRED SAARLOOS ARE THERE LEFT? HOW MANY PURE LINES ARE LEFT TO BREED FROM ?

Second one.

"Amazing what you can do on internetforums to harm people you do not dare to confront in a more personal way.
This is not the first time (name removed) attacks cwd breeders and maybe the best way is to ignore hysterical allegations.
But one wonders why now, after all these years?
He seems to forget that he and his wife (name removed) were guests at the (name removed) kennels for one and a half year and that maybe he even built the pens he took pictures from after heavy rainfall.
Should he have done a better job?
It did not seem to bother him at that time to leave his 7 dogs in these kennels when he left for Spain for a period of 5 whole months.
Pictures of the (name removed) dogs are used and abused by (name removed) as its suits his purposes:
in September 2006 pictures taken at the same kennel were there to illustrate happy dogs, running around in flowery surroundings.
But then (name removed) wanted to show off as THE specialist on wolfdogs in the UK, repeating everything he had learned at the (name removed) kennels.
It's almost X-mas and wouldn't it be great if the forum was a place where you exchange experiences with people who are mad about these wonderful dogs called czechoslowakian wolfdogs instead of turning it into a dustbin for frustated crap?

I def know who number 1 is. Number 2, has some very valid points. But without more evidence either way, I can't say who I agree with. As it is one word against another.

I havn't seen the photos in question, but, as happen in Germany arround the time of Hitlers rising, photos were often used as propaganda. The crouds of people in those photos looked happy and cheerfull, but they were/could have been easily manipulated. Then given a caption, that indicated what the photographer wanted you to think, but not what actually was.

That's the whole issue for me Tazer, who do you believe? Again allegedly there is a court case to prove the above, i will be interested to see what comes of it, if in fact there is one.

This is why i thing its a load of Poo about the crossing being to widen the genepool. No one is taking control of the out crossing and keeping all the records. It just seems like a few breeders are going out and doing this with very little thought invloved . . . Now we also have the crossing with pure wolves being discussed as well.

This is all going to be a right mess and its the dogs that will sufffer in the long run . . . If the Saarloos or CWD genepool is limited in the UK then other dogs could be imported to widen it but that costs money of course.

But then if the breeders in Europe won't cell dogs to the UK, because of the crossbreeding, then like I've said in my first post, do these breeds have a viable future here.

I think if you could prove that your intentions were to only breed pure and meet with a few breeders you could find one willing to take a chance . . But again this invloves more money and time.

I think these breeds may have a future in the UK but only if people get really passionate about keeping them pure. I also have an issue with if this breed is suitable for the uk as we are a fairly over crowded country and from what i have read these dogs benifit from space.

I think that only existing crosses will be used for breeding with the NI and not full CWD/Saarloos.

I wonder how many existing CWD/Saarloos crosses there are available for breeding.

Ther're many happy cwd and saarloos living in citties in Europe. Maybe the saarloos would be more suited to an more open environment, with its shyer, nature, and being of a higher wolf content suposedly. I think, that as long as they get enough exercise, the cwd should have no probs living in an uban environment. I read somewhere that a doggy backpack can be quite usefull for these breeds, as they will burn more energy over a shorter distance, and it gives them a purpose on a walk.

And you still wonder why they wont sell dogs to England? Nobody is conned by this individual's s*** slinging and you are correct that it is easy to take photos after a down pour when dogs are wet and muddy.

If you want to increase genetic diversity then you might have to cross back to a European wolf, but of course you then lose the breed status. You could try the GSD but what a state thats in. When Saarloos first created his breed he was very careful to select a good GSD from proven working lines.

I doubt there are more than 20 Saarloos in the UK, if so where are they?

Hi Wolfdogowner
You say this person is s**t slinging and that may well be the case hence me putting up both sides but he is a personal friend of a sister site to yours, and he is linked to on her site and up until recently was linked on the site you frequent as well. I'm sure you can see how that would cause questions to be raised? you have always seemed to me quite open to viewing both sides.

Edit - oops sorry name muddled, thought you were wolfdogwannabe until i seen you are in France, apologies.

Hi wolfdogowner. Ref the number of pure cwd and saarloos, there are a few wolfdog breeders in the uk now. I don't know how many of their dogs are pure cwd or saarloos. There's always the chance that some one has imported some also, but isn't breeding or if they are, not advertising on the internet.