Epilepsy in NI's Controversial

Sorry Azz - that's a large chunk of information. Please feel free to chop it.

If you mean for VetGen the testing is free Its cheek swab DNA that`s required so not even blood tests are needed for it

Just imagine if someone were to contact VetGen and maybe Show secretaries could organise for swabs to be done at a `DNA Party` at the various NI shows, they could get some Utes involved as well as the original lineage is the same, and word would soon filter through to other owners and breeders by spreading the word on NI websites and forums etc - heck various faction leaders could look into making it compulsory for membership or something that DNA swab submission for epilepsy research for the future of the breed are mandatory - if people pulled together including everyone not in any factions, just by sending off their own swabs if they don`t want to talk to anyone else in the NI world, imagine what could be accomplished...

There is a Utonagan Association looking into similar with the Canine Epilepsy Network (link that I put up earlier), also doing DNA profiling. Thanks for that link Patch, I will have a look at it. DNA swabs are easier than blood.

Think that is a wonderful idea Patch providing that it includes all the NI, Utonagan, E I and all the other GSD x Spits varieties because they are being interbred. If it can be done at the various companion/fundays set up by the breeders and owners of these dogs, and the reason why explained with leaflets handed out to all those there, some of the people who are thinking of breeding may think twice, well one would hope so.

If all breeders contacted anyone they had sold or given a pup to explaining about the need to test and offering a free testing perhaps it is not to late to save this from becoming a tragedy for a large number of dogs and owners.

Do wonder how many of these people are really interested in the production of a new breed or just producing a market for the sale of these dogs, sad isn’t it, even one of the people who first decided to try to breed a new breed counts their success in the numbers being bred :-( Used to think it was a disaster waiting to happen and sadly I now think it has.

Well i have contacted them to see if they would be interested in samples from NI's so will have to wait and see what happens . . .

Did you clear that with JK Raz, think you'll find there won't be too many voluntery swabs done but I'd love to be proved wrong for the dogs sake xx

It shouldnt need to be cleared by anyone hun. None of he clubs have been very helpful so far so its up to owners to get things done for the sake of our dogs. If owners can ask the breeders of their dogs to test parents and contact sibling owners then maybe we could get somewhere.

At the end of the day, its the owners that are having to live with the consequences. It looks like Ute breeders and owners are doing what they can to help so hopefully the same will happen for NI owners and breeders.

It would be great if the clubs were to get onboard with this but if not then it just shows where their priorities lie, not with the dogs or owners. Hopefully they will see that its the right thing to do.

No i didn't as i don't see why at this stage, they may say no we are not looking into any other breeds at this point. In which case it will be a waste of time.

Of course if they come back and say 'yes lets have the some NI samples' then i will pass this onto the NIS. I think we may prove you wrong, the swabs are for research and to help develop tests for HD and Epilepsy. Its not saying that every NI tested is being tested FOR these diseases.

Whilst I think that anything that will help prevent any sort of condition is a good thing, I do think that this thread seems to have blown out of proportion. It does read to me as though it is a very high percentage of NI's that have epilepsy which is not the case at all.

Well done for taking the first step
Even if they come back with not being the right time for them at the moment it won`t be a waste of time though, as plans can get underway to get word out ready for when they are able start taking in samples from a wider range of breeds so either way it`s a win win - provided people get on board for the sake of the dogs of course, regardless of who gets on with who etc as people would be able to send in samples independently
[ and nope, no one `needs permission` from anyone to put feelers out as you have done ].

If they do, pelase let us know how we as a community can help by getting word out as well, to help pass it on to owners `out there` who may well not be involved in any groups etc, [ not everyone with any particular breed of dog is in clubs or groups or whatever of course ;-) ]

Let`s hope so - it would make a huge difference not only for the future of the dogs but could make a big in-road on reputation as well - I would hope that if factions are determined to remain at arms length no matter what, maybe they could at least vie to be the faction to get the most samples in first and to keep them going in, after all imagine how much kudos there would be to being a `leading light` in getting involved toward the development of health tests for their breed ;-)


[ Yep, that`s an unashamed challenge so lets see whose up for meeting it ]

When TNS became known in Collies and `the call went out`, those having dogs tested were proud to have done so, often reporting the results, [ regardless of what those results were ], including many in the Agility community.

Maybe I will put in a suggestion to Admin to develop a `Health Tests Done` thread or section, [ for all breeds and many conditions ], in Dogsey where people can add their names with pride because they have helped their breed, [ whichever it may be ], by sending in samples when any call goes out for their breed for whatever condition, or have had testing done for those which do have tests available, and regardless of being breeders or not, because the only way to get accurate figures for ailments in breeds is to have non-breeding dogs tested for things too.

Some members do post about hip scores, eye tests, and such like already of course but it could be good to have a dedicated section which would also serve to help potential new dog owners see what can and should be tested for in the breed they are interested in so could have great educational value as well as betterment of breeds value

Will have a think of how it could be structured, and if it`s potentially viable I`m sure Admin will give it consideration though it would need to be done in a practical way so could take some time to put together of course if Admin did feel it could be a go`er, I will put the old thinking cap on - might start with a follow-on from

For those who bought a pup from a breeder : Health issues

with a general ` what`s in your breed` thread to test the waters and take it from there, could maybe work toward a tie-in with the breed stats for which Admin put a call out for HERE

I`d best stock up on caffeine methinks and if anyone wants to help put a possible formula together to take to admin, all help welcome pretty pleeeeze
[ but not on this thread as it would be too off-topic, the importance of epilepsy specifically must`nt be lost on this thread, what I`ve put here is borne from the topic itself but expansion into general health issues for multiple breeds needs to carry on elsewhere than this thread I think ]

Can understand what you are saying but for an example, Alsatians did`nt used to have a high percentage of HD, or elbow problems, or Panosteitis, or Anal furunculosis or Cutaneous vasculopathy or Pancreatic insufficiency or haemophilia A, [ in males ], or epilepsy, or CDRM...

Once a condition is identified though and may have a hereditary cause, there is no excuse when technology makes it possible to stop them in their tracks. The genetic and diagnostic knowledge now available for pre-mate testing is massive compared to when most other breeds were in their development infancy.

For any modernly developed breed be it now or in the future, there is no excuse to not have had every possible test done on every potential dog planned to be used for mating whether for within his or her own breed or the development of a new one.
Prevention is better than cure.

The numbers of epilepsy in NIs might be `small` but it`s also claimed to be a small gene pool so percentage wise its far more significant than might appear on the surface. Just the fact that hereditary cause is likely and examples are becoming known means it is definitely significant and needs to be stopped before it can become a case of `NI - the epileptic breed` like Alsatians are often thought of as `the HD breed`...

I would gladly submit dna from Inka, Inkas dad is now a rescue....
ummmm, maybe a silly question but is there a shelf life on the dna sample, do they have to be kept in the fridge, sealed, transported in a certain way or time ?

sorry got side tracked when I was posting, Inkas dad is now a rescue, I know where Inkas mum is, I would not get any further than that, grand father Logan is not with Di any more and Gran ma Ista as far as I was lead to believe was pts.
not having any digs btw, just stating my position as an owner .
any move forward with any breed as far as health testing ect is a good thing, as I have already said I would be more than willing to put forward any thing I can from Inka. xx

And i think the point is we want it to stay that way! We have a new breed at a time when we have the benifit of DNA testing and the like we should take advantage of it. Much better to nip the problem in the bud before it becomes a bigger problem.

If hip scoring had been around when the GSD was a new breed then look at what a difference that could of made to the thousands of GSD that have suffered with HD over the decades. All because people didn't know about the disease and how it was passed on.

As usual someone says something in just two easy to read lines that took me four paragraphs to try to express

All instructions will be included on the DNA swab kits, many breeders send DNA from UK to the US and Australia so don`t worry that should all be covered for time scale`s of samples, plus the labs can freeze the samples for many years

The basic steps for VetGens requirements are here

http://www.vetgen.com/research-dna-collection.html

and a useful chart here for familial connections of samples when viable

http://www.vetgen.com/research-pedigree.html

You can contact them as an individual pet owner, just a case of giving as much info as you can, but every sample should help if/when they are ready to receive them for any of the genetics research area`s they are working on for various breeds


Well done for being willing and ready to step up and be counted for your breed

Yes of course I agree. All I was pointing out was that it is not the case of NI being the epileptic breed etc. Personally I only know of several NI's with epilepsy. Of course anything that can be done to help prevent it happening in the future is the way to go. I just got the impression from some posts on this thread that some think it is a major problem in the breed which it is not.

We did ask our vet if there was any test we could have done to find out if our dog could develop epilepsy and told that there was not.

Any hereditary disease - especially in a small gene pool - is a major problem though, it`s already there, unchecked - or not admitted to, or by any breeder using the same matings again after the condition has become apparent - it could - and will - run like wildfire :?

Hence Lucky Star and myself linking to the orgs which are trying to develop tests, but they need DNA sent in to be able to develop those tests - as happened with TNS in BCs - one day the condition was identified, the call went out, very quickly a test was devised because so many got on board and willingly sent in DNA samples of their Collies, job done, there is now a pre-mate conclusive test which could prevent any more BC pups dying from the disease.
If all BC breeders utilise that test, the disease could be eradicated in short order.
Same with epilepsy in so many breeds, once a test is available there will be no reason for the breeding world to not be able to completely eradicate hereditary epilepsy.

Personally I would like to see all available tests for any breed made compulsory prior to any matings whatsoever, at least if I ruled the world it would be a legal requirement, with non-compliance heavily punishable.

[ I have World Domination Commencement somewhere in my diary, I`ll get around to it eventually ]

Just filled in my details with vetgen, it does state though that dna tests are available for designer breeds only with the dogs listed in their line, and there isn't a sibe mal or gsd sadly, for what its worth though I have contacted them .