Epilepsy in NI's Controversial

Could ask you the same thing! I choose to ask my question on here, what with it being a forum an all. The cp may not be on here but there are plenty of others. I have said all along i don't want to start an argument so how about you back off abit.

Perhaps the OP is hoping for answers from TIDA members or other owners who have dogs from TIDA. What is the problem with asking here? New members are joining Dogsey every day - who's to say one of them can't answer?

The only argument here is about whether or not the OP should ask the question!!! That's ridiculous! Can we keep on topic please?

I would also be interested to know about how this is being tackled outside of the NIS. Does anyone here have a non-NIS NI and know anything about this situation?

thanks Sal i really do want to keep this thread on topic

My Kato isnt a Tida or NIS NI and he is just fine no problems like you guys go on about. The only person who can answer the OP question is the person who alledgedly bred the litter. Surely she could find there number and ask them direct how can we answer for someone we dont know?

When my dog developed epilepsy his breeder fed me the usual line that it was not in his lines. Wrong, as I subsequently discovered. Epilepsy is rife in many breeds, not least the ones that went to make up these breeds.

Epilepsy is a condition that is usually considered, if not proven, to be hereditary, many breeds are known to suffer from fitting, this fitting in most cases will be, eventually, put down to idiopathic epilepsy, that is epileptic fits from an unknown cause.

Although it is known to be prevalent in some breeds it is a fact that some breeders have not excepted that it is a hereditary problem and have continued breeding from effected lines, it is particularly on the fringes of these breeds that breeding is undertaken ignoring the problem to the extent that breeding from any of these animals risks producing carriers or effected individuals.

Now one would assume that because the NI and the other similar examples of this crossbreeding contain at least one breed that is known to be badly effected with epilepsy having many examples of carriers and effected examples particularly amongst the dogs bred for the pet market.

No one knows, or it is not public knowledge, which animals or even which lines were used to develop the NI or similar crossbreeds, it is therefore highly likely that the genes responsible for epilepsy is ingrained in the animals now known as NI, UTE etc. and it will take a tremendous concerted effort to try to sort this out.

As it seems people are breeding as they wish without guidance from one of the animal health organisations concerned with genetic problems or any real knowledge of the background of the animals they are using. Some are even still out crossing with animals chosen for looks or temperament regardless of other considerations. Add the fact that owners of quality pure bred animals are unlikely to allow their stock to be used to help alleviate this problem until the breeding of the NI, UTE etc is brought under one roof and some sort of control. It would seem unlikely that a healthy new breed can or could be developed in the haphazard fashion shown thus far in it’s development.

Before someone decide I am just knocking these animals be assured whatever I feel about the project or the way it has been executed that has no bearing of my concern for the health of these poor animals and their distressed and distraught owners many of whom bought them in good faith.

Good post Pita and well put

I understand where you are coming from Pita. As one of those owners you mention, I personally believe that if a dog has epilepsy in its lines it should not be bred from, full-stop. I would not wish this awful condition on any dog or owner. And I strongly feel that if the history is unknown, the dog should not be bred from.

Well, I am viewing from the outside but it seems that all the animals called NI or UTE are from unknown source or at least unknown to most of the owners so if breeding does stop so will the proposed breeds, although perhaps to start again may be the only way unless people are prepared to work together and take advice.

The truly sad fact is this, people are breeding from dogs knowingly that have epilepsy in their lines. Not only is it extremely detremental to the breed but to the individual dogs (who develop the condition) and the owners too, all become victims:-(

My understanding of the epilepsy in NI's (from what little I have heard of it) is that there were no instances of epilepsy from the start until AFTER the split happened and you ended up with TIDA and the NIS (and too Utes which also added other breeds back into their lines).

The NIS are breeding ONLY NI to NI and have had no epilepsy issues arise.

TIDA on the other hand I believe (through hearsay, no first hand experience here) are still adding other breeds back into their NI lines. Obviously not all TIDA breeders are, but, one main one in particular apparently. It is this main persons line that seems to be affected by the epilepsy (if what I have read in the past is correct) therefore it SHOULD be relatively easy to stop the progression of this disease through the NI world, IF the unethical breeder(s) in question were willing. Simply neutering every dog that has come out of this line SINCE the TIDA/NIS split happened should eradicate the problem. You would also have to neuter all of the puppies that have resulted by dogs of this line being bred with other lines.

Being that the NIS lines are clear, none of these dogs in my opinion need additional breeding restrictions imposed. TIDA however should be pooling together their funds collected for events etc and putting a stop to this illness in whatever way they can and FAST.

As I said this is only based on what I have heard, I'm not somebody of importance in the NI world so it is just my understanding of things from what others have said.
Also I am a member of the NIS HOWEVER, I personally have nothing against TIDA as I have had no dealings with them to base an opinion on. So don't take this to be me defending the NIS and trying to bad talk TIDA, it's not about that.

Just seems to be fact, that NIS have no hereditary epilepsy and TIDA are starting to have real issues with it.

How can that be, when Abbies dogs siblings etc are affected with it?

Are Abbies dogs NIS breeding? As I said, my post is based on what I have read from others only, and all I have seen stated by others is that there are no NIS dogs with epilepsy of the hereditary kind.
Obviously if Abbies dogs ARE of NIS breeding and not TIDA breeding I stand corrected.

Again, all I did was pool together what other people believe to be the correct and useful information into one post so people could see it, as all of the NI bashing tends to get in the way of people seeing a small comment here and there that may be of relevance.

This is what Abbie posted about her dogs in the beginning, I took the last line of her post to mean that her dogs are not of NIS breeding? Thus making my statement still correct as of this moment. I may be reading it wrongly though, if so I apologise.

Not fact remember hear say...

That's why I said "seems to be" fact. It "seems" it is until others prove otherwise But yes, it is all hearsay as there is no solid truth as of yet

My dog that is affected by this is an NIS registered dog but from the lines that tida have continued to breed from and the NIS have not.

When we first enquired about her the breeder (who is now tida but when we bought our dog it was before she was thrown out of the NIS). The breeder told us that there was only one dog affected by epilepsy and that the cause was frontline. She failed to tell us that this was our dogs mothers litter brother at the time.

It was much later on that we found out that not only did sachas mother have health problems her litter sister also suffers from epilepsy.

Yes my dog is NIS registered and so are others from this line BUT the difference is these dogs will never be bred from. TIDA on the other hand are continuing to breed from these dogs. My dogs sister has recently had her 2nd litter despite the owner knowing full well about the epilepsy problem. They also have one from her first litter advertised as a future stud dog.

Thankfully my own dog has shown no signs of developing this condition so far. I can tell you how frightening it is and upsetting to learn that it is something that could happen. I do accept that she is a carrier and she will never be used for breeding for this reason. How these people can continue breeding from these dogs is beyond me.

Inkliveeva (sorry just noticed the other bits you added in your reply but was hard to see in my post).

As I understand it Ute's came from NI's, not the other way around?
I have no idea about them allegedly breeding from rescue dogs, can't comment.
Did young dogs from the NIS die recently of epilepsy? I didn't mention ANY other health issues, epilepsy is the topic we are discussing. Any other health issues are for a different thread.
Why do I need to go and "do my homework"? I tried to post a NICE post with no drama to help people, and yet there is an underlying tone of non acceptance to your reply. Why do people constantly get crapped on when trying to post relevant information?
I didn't claim to have all of the knowledge, but what I have heard is relevant until someone proves otherwise.

Not sure why I bother...

Abbie, I am sorry you have that worry hanging over your head
Your post further proves what I felt to be true, that the NIS are doing the sensible thing and TIDA, as yet, are not.

Again another reason for this post, I am sick of all the hear say and want some FACTs from both sides.