Dobermann Discussions

The health issues have been sorted and as long as you buy from a reputable breeder there are no probblems. Morgan's breeder knew nothing aboout von willerbrands disease but lucky enough his line was ok and his test has just come back that he is a carrier. This is fine as long as you breed with a clear, which my new dog is. I had shar pei before these so i did not want to risk another early death. Nobody in the breed i know have had any problems but they are breeders and breed the right combination and test for all the defects beforehand. They do seam to be getting stronger.

Which health issues are we talking about? I believe them to be addressed already by reputable breeders who have worked hard to eliminate VWD, PHPV, Hip Dysplasia, and heart problems. Health screening has been a major issue for some time in the breed and both sets of parents of mine are tested and clear and certificated as such. If there are other issues then i am unaware of them.

Well there is Hypothyroidism, Von Willebrands, which still has NOT been eliminated, Dilated Cardiomyopathy, one of the biggest killers in the breed, Wobblers syndrome, neck scoring seems to have dissappeared, some Hip Dysplasia, but not what I would call excessive. I have know champion dogs drop dead at 5yrs from Cardiomyopathy, my own did at 5yrs, Wobblers in VERY evident too.
Dawn.

VWD has been eliminated as much as possible, as long as people breed from untested dogs it can not be eliminated entirely, reputable breeders do ensure their dogs are tested prior to breeding, and are diligent in their breeding program. If we were all more careful regarding the health issues of our dogs breed before purchasing the dog there would be far fewer issues.

Do they really? most interesting statement that!

Dawn.

Because we don't allow mentions of litters Dawn - hence you post will be edited too.

well the word used was reputable. Meaning those who only have the best interests of the breed at heart. The onus is on the new owners frankly to ensure the dogs they purchase have only been bred from tested and clean lines.
I am not a breeder therefore do not have to defend myself but the breeders of my dogs would be justifiably offended by your comments. They have committed theirselves to health screening and testing.
Clearly I have no understanding of your interpretation of the word reputable, but understand the sense in which i mean it. Of good reputation, earned through hard work and dedication to their breed. not just for ring success or financial gain.

VWD has NOT been eliminated I dont know why you think it has, and certainly not as much as possible, there are loads of people who "dont have a problem" thats their point, mine is EVERY litter should be tested, tested parens cannot be 100% reliable it has in cases been proved wrong. For example my friends Dobe tested affected, couldnt possibly be affected as the sire was clear, retested affected!!!

What health tests do you consider necessary in Dobes?
Dawn.

I think you are not reading the posts properly,I did not say it has been eliminated so therefore I don't think it has.
Don't know where the phase "don't have a problem" is coming from. thats whose point?
Have I ever said every litter of every breed should not be tested, no I haven't so where are you coming from?
Your friends Dobe tested affected and the sire was clear, was the dam clear too?
I can not discuss anything with you when I do not understand your points. I don't mean to be rude but you are not making yourself clear to me. Also, lets not forget I am not answerable for the breed as a whole, only for the decisions I personally make.

In 17yrs of showing dogs 10 of them Dobermanns and still actively involved with the breed, there are plenty of breeders/exhibitors who state they dont test because "they dont have a problem" thats what I meant. I also said that I think every litter should be tested because there have been mistakes in parent results, resulting in cases such as my friends dog. (I perhaps didnt make that clear) His dam tested carrier, but the sire was clear, a clear dog cannot produce an affected puppy but he did!! The ELISA blood tests that are still in use was to blame, they have on more than one occasion produced incorrect results, which is why I believe all puppies should still be tested regardless of whether the parents have.

Dobermanns have many issues, you may have been lucky, you may only have had them for a short period I dont know, but I do know that people hide things, and do breed from animals that shouldnt be bred from, whether it be temperament, conformation or health problems.
Dawn.

OOPS forgot to add, I asked what health tests you think Dobes should have?

Dawn,
Those breeders that claim not to have a problem have to answer for themselves, I cannot answer for them. I would not buy a pup from a breeder who did not test. Therefore, surely I have taken all possible steps to ensure my dogs are as healthy as possible. Yes both of the breeders of my dogs are very sucessful in the show ring, but I don't think that alone makes them reputable.
I don't disagree with you on the litter testing issue. If i were ever to breed I would test my own dogs in advance, personally I would not breed from a carrier but I do know that it is done. I actually have no intention of ever breeding even though I have one of each sex. firstly they have the same sire, and Syd has no testicles specifically because I have no intention of breeding them, Rio will be spayed also when the time comes. Have I been lucky, I would say I have been careful, but it is way too soon to say what the future holds. I do object to the suggestion that I undertook this breed lightly, I certainly did not, I did a huge amount of homework and investigation before committing to buy these two dogs.
Don't run away with the idea, just because they are pets and not show dogs etc. that I was any less diligent than the most committed of breeders. We all know that dogs who should never be bred from are, but that hardly makes for a reputable breeder.

I never said you undertook any decision lightly, I never mentioned anyone in person! I am saying the breed in general is not an overly healthy one and having been involved with them for so long you get to know what goes on. In the dog press you often hear of dogs dying at young ages etc... its not nice.

Can I ask you once more, which health tests you think the Dobermann should be tested for before breeding?
Dawn.

Dawn, whether you mean to be or not you come across as very antagonistic and self righteous, maybe you should hound your friend after all she was the one who was going to breed from a carrier not me, and she has the benefit of your knowledge.
I can only speak from my own experience and the line my dogs come from have many ageing relatives and therefore have not popped their clogs prematurely. I can understand you wanting the best for the breed, but you seem to be judging the breeders without knowing them. You can't tar them all with the same brush, give credit where credit is due, your not the only one that cares you know.

Whats wrong with breeding from a carrier? It is perfectly acceptable and in fact you can mate an affected dog to a clear to produce a litter of carriers, carriers are not symptomatic, so the breeding is perfectly safe. Carrier to clear will produce a 50% clear/carrier litter, nothing wrong there either.

All I am trying to acertain is YOUR point of view here, by asking what health tests YOU feel is necessary for the breed before breeding thats all, I am not asking about anybody else, I know what tests can be undertaken, I was interested in your views as an owner, nowt wrong with that is there?

Im not tarring anyone but with the significant health issues within this breed, I am interested in what people see as valid and what is not.
Dawn.

I gave you my opinion, I said I would not breed from a carrier, I did not say if it was right or wrong, I said I would not do it. that means me, I speak for me and me alone, but i get the distinct impression the only opinion you are interested in is your own. end of conversation.

Nope, you are way off track, but if you cant tell me what health tests you would want to see carried out then so be it.
Dawn.

Sorry to be a drag but isn’t this about the breed as a working dog?

The Dob as a therapy dog.

Long term psychiatric hospital, working with chronic psychotic patients and secure unit patients for criminally insane. Scans from contact sheet.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/aegean_photos/H4.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/aegean_photos/H2.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/aegean_photos/H3.jpg

Think we can discuss anything to do with the breed to be honest

I'm very interested in your statement, could you please post a link I can follow to learn more?

As for breeding, I trust my breeder with my dog's life and I like most owners do not take that lightly. My breeders bitch is pregnant at the moment and nothing would sway me from her pups as I have a boy from her last litter that is too wonderful for words.

Nonetheless as I am only a layman (woman) I would be interested to hear exactly what health checks I should be making sure both the sire and the dam have.

Dawn could you tell me exactly what checks you would want to see from both parents?

Mustards Mum > I'm very interested in your statement, could you please post a link I can follow to learn more?

Clob
Sorry, I didn't understand that, I put the photo links in the post.

- my dog, he was the only one of the breed known to have ever worked in that type of therapy/situation.