Do we know what we own? Discussions

of course any dogs can turn as you well know hun
BUT its more so in molosser breeds than most!

Hello.
Thought i'd put my little tuppence worth in.

Staffies, as a breed, have attracted the wrong sort of owner, that's happened because they got a reputation for being aggressive. As a result of this, some staffies are becoming MORE aggressive, as people encourage the aggression and want it in the breed. People are getting these dogs to be aggressive. It's wrong and it's sad, I don't think anyone could dispute that. There are now certain staffie lines that are not just dog aggressive but are becoming people aggressive too because of this.

There are others, that are breeding the aggression out. This is not undermining what a Staffie is, no other aspect of it's personality will be altered, or the way it looks, it's just the breed will lose it's fighting instinct. Surely that's a good thing?

If this isn't done and if things continue the way that they are doing, then basically it will not matter 2 hoots what any of us think because the DDA will be used...Staffies may not be on the DDA but if a judge rules a dog is a 'pit bull type' and is aggressive...good bye doggy. If the enforcement of the DDA is tightened (which I suspect it may be very soon) then staffies could really suffer at it's hands. I for one don't want to see that or hear people on here having awful times because of it...BUT something has to be done and has to be done soon as like it or lump it, staffies have an awful name right now and a lot of the time with good reason I'm afraid. I am fed up of hearing about dogs being attacked and even killed by staffies.

I think the aggression must be bred out and the breed changed in that respect, as otherwise there is nothing surer than these dogs will be seized under the DDA as pit bull 'types' or the whole breed will be added...not nice, not good.

staffords where bred for fighting
but never ever had human agression issues so by saying because of dog agression it makes them human agressive is incorrect

When fighting in the pit and at its fullest flight the owner would put its hand on the dog it would not attack you

I'm not saying that they were initially bred ot be human aggressive, I am saying thanks to poor breeding and this breed bneing in the wrong hands, they are becoming people aggressive, not all of them, but certain lines. People aggression is ENCOURAGED in some of them and actually provoked.

All I can add to this thread is that It is totally irresponsible for anyone to argue that dog aggression should be tolerated and to use the breed as an excuse is wrong. Its not the Staffordshire Bull's fault that they can be aggressive but rather us Humans for making them so for the purpose of fighting. Dog fighting is as we all know illegal and barbarric and therefore any fighting instinct should be breed out of all breeds since it has no purpose or use and is no longer necessary. The fighting instinct of a Staff does not constitute its spirit, to say so is misguided and wrong.

The Staffies spirit should be considered to be all the good things about the breed and these apects should be nurtured, not forgotten because of aggression. Aggresion needs to be controlled and removed as much as possible.

While all dogs are naturally aggresive to a degree however small, it is imperiteve that we as owers and handlers get a grip of it and act resposibly and accordingly with what ever measures are necessary, whether this be muzzling or never letting the dog off the lead in public etc etc etc etc.

It is never ok to say I have a dog from an agresive breed so its aggression is to be realised and tolerated, and also considerd necessary to the breed. Furthermore its even worse to sya that to make the dog un-aggresive would ruin the dog / breed. Get real! its that kind of attitude that gets Staffies a bad and undeserved name!

Any aggression should be realised and worked out of the dog and breed as much as possible. Luke you seem like a responsible kinda dog owner with his head screwed on!

I certainly don't agree with breeding for, or encouraging, dog aggression. But what I am reading from Hayley's posts is that a Stafford was originally bred for fighting and any new owners need to bear that in mind when they buy a Stafford. It is something that needs to be borne in mind when training and socialising a Staff puppy. Any aggression should be discouraged IMO as Staffords these days are not used for fighting, most are family pets.

It may be more evident in the border collie. People who buy a collie without doing any research are sometimes then amazed/shocked when their dog starts to herd their children, the cat, chase cars, joggers etc etc. These same people need to look to the collie background, why they were bred (to herd sheep!) and then decide how best to socialise and train their collie so that it can happily fit into family life and discourage the herding behaviour if they aren't intending to work their dog.

I wholeheartedly agree with Luke and 1Law.

1Law you have put the point across very succintly.

Undesirable traits have to be bred out for the good of the breed.

God if most dogs hadnt had their original purpose bred out of them we would have very undesirable pets. Can you imagine all the Dalmatians following their owners cars down the road!!!

i guess you will never understand where im coming from which is cool as i respect what your all saying

But im talking mainly to non stafford owners and no disrespect but i used to think like you all did till i researched more into the breed (i did do alot of research before getting my first stafford but i mean deeply researched)

I just want to keep the stafford the way it should be, as everyone is so quick to change the stafford but surely if u need to change as you cannot deal with it then its not the stafford you love truely its another breed!

ive researched collies for my canine studies course and i agree with u moobi why do people get shocked ? because they truely dont realise what they own!

So when you do then you control it or if you cannot get another breed as you really shouldnt be changing the breed to suit your needs

This is not what I read from Hayleys posts. My understanding of Hayleys posts is she doesnt think the aggressive instincts should be bred out.

1law have you ever own any bull and terrier breeds?

I totally agree with what 1Law is saying here,
HayleySBT,I think if you read this part ofAilsa1's post again, that is not what she was trying to say hon.......

HayleySBT
staffords where bred for fighting
but never ever had human agression issues so by saying because of dog agression it makes them human agressive is incorrect .


Ailsa1
Staffies, as a breed, have attracted the wrong sort of owner, that's happened because they got a reputation for being aggressive. As a result of this, some staffies are becoming MORE aggressive, as people encourage the aggression and want it in the breed. People are getting these dogs to be aggressive. It's wrong and it's sad, I don't think anyone could dispute that. There are now certain staffie lines that are not just dog aggressive but are becoming people aggressive too because of this.

This bit I agree with Moobli. But as you point out the BC can be trained and socialised so the undesirable (for the pet home) behaviour of herding can be minimised if not eliminated.

correct it should not be encouraged but its there and if you dont like then get another breed! why change the breed

From the minute i was brought into this world the family had Staffords (infact for twelve years previous it was this way too), i was brought up to walk, talk, sleep, eat, sing n bloody dance staffords! I have quite a close understanding of the breed...after years of being around them i understand how they tick, know the history of the breed inside out, could tell you more than what one would expect me to be able too due to my age. Despite the fact i know the breed well, i still hold the same views.

Simple question; (as you asked) Why Change The Breed?
Simple Answer; For The Benefit Of The Breed.

Hayley may I ask WHY you have staffords?

If you don't want to change them, and wish for their origional purpose, do you FIGHT your dogs?

If you came down one morning and saw that your older dogs had ripped up your pup, would you just shrug and say, "ah well, it's just in their blood". If they hadn't been changed, this is what they would do, I assure you!

I'm so sorry Hayley but you are so wrong, no dog should be aggressive, dogs are our companions, they are BRED TO BE OUR COMPANIONS, AND BRED TO HELP US, HUMANS! You're damn right all breeds have changed, every single one, but for the better. Dog aggression is not for the better, and a staff who has had this trait 'bred out' is a far better staff than any that hasn't.

Hayley if staffs had never been changed, you wouldn't have 3 in the same house right now. And if you do a bit more 'research' you will find that 99.9% of 'fighting dogs' are human aggressive towards all but their 'master'.

A good trait? I THINK NOT!

Don't you think that Stafford owners are having enough of a battle keeping it off the Dangerous Dogs list as it is without someone, like you, openly admitting that they would prefer the 'aggression' to stay?

By talking about this trait do you not see that you could be attracting the wrong sort of owner, one that wants to be seen as the 'hard man' cos he's got a stafford.

Some changes are for the better eg breeding out the 'aggression'. It's not that we are lazy that we would prefer to have the aggression bred out of them it's so that we can keep it off the Dangerous Dogs List and aspire to have a good all round breed and not constantly have to have the dog glued to our legs for fear of it attacking another dog.

is it for the benefit of the breed or the benefit of humans?
Take away everything from the stafford as we have its physical appearence and rightly so the job it was bred for, but if we cannot control our breeds instinct then sadly you no long have the true stafford

CONTROL is the way, NOT ENCOURAGE and NO BREED OUT

if you control then dont

Luke im sure u know alot about staffords never thought u didnt

Hi,
A stafford can be dog aggressive and owners should be aware of this,it may not be on the surface but it is there.
A stafford will not go out of his way to start a fight.If the cirmcumstances are right any breed any dog will fight.
Will i ever leave my two unsupervised,NO at the end of the day i know what they could be capable of doing,not that they ever will fight,but i would rather not put the dogs or myself in the situation where i could have two seriously injured dogs,possibly even dead ones.