Discussion split from NI and Utonagan owners thread Discussions

I know ... and I'm not going to tell you! suffice to say that they either live in the south east, or the south west!

Umm why not?!

Because, like me and thousands of others, she believed that most if not all of the pedigree dogs are genetically flawed, and she wanted to start from the grass roots up. I am a firm believer in shuffling up the cards, with ALL species. Just like I would never have a thoroughbred horse (I have had part TB's, and that was enough, can't beat a good Irish Draught, Cleveland, Section A or D IMO!), I would never buy another pedigree dog, although could be sorely tempted by a Mal, Czechie or Saarloos and possibly a border terrier. I will be dissuaded that on the whole, statistically (which is why it is much cheaper to insure a x than a pedigree) a cross or mongrel is much healthier than a pedigree. There are many exceptions of course, as we all know, I have known gsd crosses with appalling hips and hocks as an example, but I am talking statistically here.

Because I choose not to, nosey !!

With all the flak, rumours, jealousy and libel that surrounds Andre (Shoshone) Charlie Richardson (Cry-Wolf) and Paul Winder in Kent, I am keeping my powder dry on this one. One day, I may well purchase a Czech or a Saarloos, or even both, but until that day my lips are sealed. Just a gut feeling I have that it is not a good idea to say any more.

I quite agree!! But then it is no different from what all pedigree breeders do and have done, and nobody turns a hair. Well, I do, but I mean the KC etc.

lol , but she had a perfect vision ruined by everyone else remember

As I've said before, she became very suspicious of everybody - and after how she was shafted by so-called friends, who could blame her? She refused to write anything down, but kept all her lines etc. etc. in her head. She must have had a brilliant memory, but you never caught her out, only when she was deliberately giving you flannel because she hadn't decided whether she could trust you or not. It took her about 5 years I suppose before she trusted us enough to sell us Hal.

But yes, it was poor organisation, which is why I suppose when she had moved to Lincolnshire and settled, she was going to come and stay with us and get everything down on paper, or rather on computer.

Of course it is no different that's the whole point. You said she was breeding to get away from that.

An experiment? Sure, like something Dr Frankenstein style throwing together breeds of dogs that didn't stand a chance of suiting each other, putting various things together cause come now lets not forget that there is weim and mastiff blood in the lines too aswell as collie and god knows what else :wink:, then putting these to supposed "wolves" and crosses of such which came from. There are infact pictures of Eddies dogs floating round the net but I can't for the life of me find the link. It was a terrible idea from the start, and I don't buy the banner of health either. She wouldn't of inbred so readily (i've had it confirmed from someone who had dogs from Eddie that it happened quite a bit), bred from strays, and bred with questionable ethics otherwise. She had a goal and vision? Yeah I beleive she and every other breeder did and still does, a marketable mongrel that supplies the market created by them from the mystery woven around these dogs which is just a smokescreen of lies which fetches a tidy sum. 700 quid for a pup? Yes, I can clearly see the sense there. Poor poor dogs. My Pomeranian is about as bloody wolfy as them!

Eddy and JK were friends. Eddy sold JK pups, helped her and advised her from what I can gather. I don't know the whole story, because Eddy didn't talk about it much, but as I have said before, she warned her - once she, Eddy, had started to see the way the wind was beginning to blow - NOT to continue to advertise her pups as wh's, and NOT to go on national tv with her dogs. They had a massive falling out, which to be fair to JK wasn't difficult, I never saw it, but I know Eddy could be a right so and so, so there may have been far more to all this than the advertising and the tv programme, but it was Eddy who got relentlessly pursued by the RSPCA, and she had to ship all her dogs out all over the place to keep them safe, and the whole thing began to unravel. This is very simplistic of course, but basically that was their relationship, they were good friends at one time.

I agree! I was just pointing out the hypocracy of it!! But yes, I agree, she should not have done that, I will never ever condone inbreeding.

But you yourself have said that her dogs were kept in terrible conditions (whatever the reasons may have been), that she used an old collie in her breeding programme, no health check were carried out and she did father to daughter matings.......why would you or anyone even contimplate (sp) buying from this terrible breeder/puppy farm and then have the audacity to rubbish other breeders. A bad breeder is a bad breeder regardless.
As I have said - we all tell ourselves things or make excuses to make it easier to live with our decisions and to make it easier to sleep at night.

And of course Luke, we all know how well you knew her

I won't argue with you about it, but i feel very strongly about ANYBODY criticising ANYBODY unless and until they have met them, or at least had conversations with them.

thats very handy as your the only one that claims to of

O come on. ALL pedigree dogs are totally inbred, so don't you think you are being a tad hypocritical!!

She did NOT use an old collie in her breeding programme, she used Cap twice. IMO totally wrongly, but only twice.

And she bred 2 father/daughter litters - again, hardly the many matings that you are suggesting.

Having said that, I agree with you entirely that it was BAD - but don't exaggerate. Do you have pedigree dogs? In which case, are you appalled by the fact that they will come from father/daughter, mother/son or brother/sister matings?

No, not at all, I know several people who bought dogs from Eddy and who knew her well, at least 2 a lot better than myself!

I would never condone inbreeding but you have when it suited your own selfish needs. You decided you wanted a dog from her and nothing would put you off buying one, you are the hypocrit in this as you witnessed this first hand. I wouldnt touch a breeder who did this in the day and age.......we know the mistakes of the past and we should be learning from them not making excuses for the inexcusable

So thats 4 litters you know of the breeding, 2-very inbred father/daughter mating and 2 using her husbands farm collie coz he was handy of course. No wonder she didn't write anything down, people would have run a mile.

Gnasher - do you know what did happen to the dogs the Eddie bred that weren't 'right'? The ones you said were too aggressive etc.?

This was one of my concerns when the idea of re-introducing founder breeds was aired. What on earth would happen to the dogs that didn't make the grade? What reputable breeder would allow their pedigree dogs to be used, meaning that breeds used may not be the best examples of their breed - what affect would that have on the future dogs in terms of, for instance, health? Round and round we go again, eh?

I think most people know that I take an uncompromising view on health so I agree with you on that score. So many times we've heard reasons and excuses to continue to breed regardless of the health issues - people seem to become so obsessed that the line where acceptable becomes unacceptable becomes blurred.

WHY do you have to know someone to know right from wrong, or more aptly whether what they are doing is right or wrong? Very weak argument! None of us no the puppyfarmers, and in human regards the rapists, murderers, terrorists etc but we all know what they do is wrong?
Very weak when you have to try and justify that you don't like what i'm saying, gained from facts and research, with "Well you didn't know her" oh please!