Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Discussions

We met a man on holiday who trained CWD as search and rescue dogs in Europe and so they must be reliable dogs, but I am sure they would be bought by the wrong people in some cases just with having wolf in the name. With NI and mals people just think they are a husky type dog and don't seem too worried although some have started crossing the road now our pup is a big boy.

Hi Everybody, I'm back just to tell you, that you were right! Observation of what's been recently happening to the breed in the UK makes me admit, that it shouldn't be introduced in the UK. Not because of the dogs, but because of the owners. Some people who call themselves "UK CWD breeders" (or called a few months ago ) mix the dogs with wolves, irresponsibly sell them to owners who know little or nothing about the breed and, in result, can't cope with the pups, lie to other European CWD breeders, etc. etc.

Regrettably I must admit that those of you who have been arguing against introducing the breed to your country seemed to have known your kins better than people from our part of the world did. I'm really sorry to say this, but it appears that the breed started being destroyed in the UK even BEFORE it was officially accepted by DEFRA.

And one more thing - please, do not confuse the so-called "UK wolfdogs", a term which has recently started appearing on some strange websites, with the officially recognised breed of "Ceskoslovensky Vlciak" (roughly translated as Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, sometimes referred to as CSV). While the first might be either pure CSV or any mix/hybrid with an inuit, saarlos, timberwolf, or who-knows-what, the behaviour and character of which could hardly be predicted, the other is a well established, recognised by FCI European breed, stable, though not easy to raise and handle. It is suitable for active owners who are ready to devote their dogs much time and energy in return for a fantastic relationship.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Czech. wolfdog and the Sarloos wolfdog?

If you NEED to be told the difference then maybe you shouldn't be getting one??

Do the research!

I think I am in total agreement with you there. We did a lot of research before deciding we wanted to have our's .

Hi,
I wonder if this is not time to move this thread to another section/forum? As far as I know DEFRA has already recognised Ceskoslovensky Vlcak as a legitimate dog breed in the UK. Am I right?

BTW American CSV owners/breeders voted and registered the breed in the US as "Czechoslovakian vlcak" (not wolfdog) to discriminate it from the popular in the US "wolf/dog hybrids".

Yes defra has changed their rules regarding the Czech, Saarloos and wolfdogs of 3rd generation and beyond. However, the Czech is not yet recognised by the uk kennel club, though from what I've read elsewhere, that maychange soon.

Thanks!
I'd advise you to be careful with terminology :twisted: When you use the term "the Czech" you may hurt the feelings of Slovakians who are in charge of the CSVs breed in the FCI

Point taken.

Hi Rona
Are they becoming popular in America?

As far as I'm aware, there're only a couple of breeders in the usa, can't tell you how fast the breed is gaining popularity there though.

I don't think so. As far as I know there are about 20 dogs in the USA, all of them imported from Europe and two oficially registered kennels.

The first US CSV litter is due this winter in Virginia in a kennel of a very reliable and honest person. She aims towards putting sound and transparent legal, ethical, etc. foundations for breeding CSVs in the USA and I hope she'll manage to do so.

Hi Rona
I wondered about the popularity as its very easy to get a dog with quite high wolf content in America so they don't go crazy over the thought.
Its good news America have registered under the correct name 'Czechoslovakian vlcak' and not used - 'wolfdog' which has i think caused a lot of the problems here in the U.K for your breed.

Hi Liz!
What makes the difference between the CSV dog breed and what the Americans call wolfdog/wolf hybrid/ is the level of predictability of the animal's appearance, character and behaviour. In case of CSV an extremely tough and fast process of controlled selection for specific features took place for several years. It was completed with a detailed breed standard and the registry of the breed at FCI. In case of wolf/dog hybrids - there has been no such targeted selection.

This means that when getting a pedigree CSV from a reliable kennel, where the pups are well socialised and used to interacting with the "human pack" from their early days, the owner knows what kind of animal he might expect. When buying a wolf/dog hybrid of any wolf blood content either 98% or 5%- he may expect anything - from a wolf to a dog or any combination of these...

Sixty years ago in the Pohranicny Straze Military Kennel methodical work was carried out towards selection of CSVs that would be as doggish, trainable and work-loving as GSDs, and as healthy and strong as wolves. Only four Carpathian wolves were used in the creation of the breed and the last crossing took place in 1980. The full pedigree of each registered CSV can be traced back to the crossing with the wolves and the names + kennels of the GSD are also known. There were no random matchings! The first hybrids were trained for work and later tested. Those, that did not pass extremely tough working tests were eliminated (also physically ) from breeding, just like animals of the strongest 'wolfish' nature (most independent and shy) were NOT used for further breeding simply because they were useless for service. Still, some of their genes remained in the population and their remote "echoes" now contribute to the differences among particular CSVs. That's why it's not an easy breed and requires much time, effort and knowledge on the part of the owners, especially when raising very smart and ingenuous (;-)) pups.

People who know the breed well put great emphasis on the need to train CSVs and give them opportunity to work - whether it's obedience, tracking, defence, endurance runs by the bike (40, 70, 100 km), etc. 'Work drive' especially towards tracking is the most basic selected element of their nature and at the same time the most valuable trait of their character, which shouldn't be wasted if the dogs are to match the standard and not be turned into a purely 'show breed'.

Agree, this was a very wise step to save the breed from mix-breeding and falling into hands of irresponsible wolf maniacs or greedy "businessmen" ;-)

I personally think (as do most CSV owners and breeders from Europe) that mix-breeding CSVs with other animals is morally wrong, since it would eventually lead to the destruction of the breed, which is still in the phase of development. Honest breed lovers and breeders have been trying now to cooperate internationally in order to breed smart, friendly and healthy CSVs, more and more balanced as far as the appearance and especially the character is concerned.
By producing accidental mixes with other breeds and wolves, those devoted breeders’ work and effords would be easily spoiled and the deaths of many beautiful animals that did not pass the tests in the Military Kennel would be wasted, not to mention the suffering of the people who were involved in this very controversial "experiment". (I'm not in a position to judge it and I don’t ). The gene pool of the breed is rather limited and that’s why the breeders carry great responsibility for wise and knowledgeable breeding, to strengthen the positive features, to avoid hereditary illnesses and keep the separate genetic lines.

Adding Carpathian wolf’s blood (the scientist argue that this was the key to success – Carpathian wolves are shy, but their crosses turned more oriented towards cooperation with humans than those with American wolves) might theoretically help enrich it, but it would be a very risky step. Hardly anyone can imagine in modern ‘humane’ times, in civilian conditions such fast, tough and.... cruel selection process like the one that took place in the Czechoslovakian Army . Such project would cost a fortune, involve many people - breeders, trainers and still without the selection the balance and stability of the breed would be put at great risk…

Whatever the origin of the breed was, these beautiful, smart and healthy animals now exist. They're lovely and loyal... I think it was W. Churchill who said that he liked neither dogs nor cats, because dogs are man’s slaves and cats show him contempt. I bet he would like CSV ;-) since they love their pack, but definitely are not slaves…

It's just a matter of imagination & ethics to protect them, and keep the way they are...

Interesting post. I wondered why Carpathian wolf was used.

I believe this is the Churchill quote you were refering to.

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."

Just change pig to csv.

He really was a brilliant man.

Definately was. I'm sure he'd have a few things to say to our suposed leaders today.

Here's another one.

"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."

Adding Carpathian wolf’s blood (the scientist argue that this was the key to success – Carpathian wolves are shy, but their crosses turned more oriented towards cooperation with humans than those with American wolves)

I sure would like to see evidence of this...

The reason CSV was banned is because it was a recent wolf cross- this was DEFRA policy, now changed.

Crossing the CSV with other wolves (or wolfdogs) upset many owners on the continent dedicated to developing the breed.

Thanks... I had just a vague recollection of the quote ...

Well, CSv have smarter... movement ;-)

Due to Stephanitz's research results. He used Carpathian wolf crosses (Canis Lupus Lupus, from Slovakia) when creating the GSD breed. Later attempts were undertaken to conceal this fact, but Colonel Hartl, (the head of the PS military project, 85 this year) had access to Stephanitz's studies who claimed that the crossess had positive features as far as cooperation with humans was concerned...
There were later problems with the acceptance of the CSV breed, since the FCI did not want another breed similar to Saarlos. But a special comission proved that CSV were specific and thus different than the crosses/ hybrids and Saarloses. This study and decision enabled te registration of the CSV as a separate breed.

Stephanitz was far from being a scientist.