Crufts GSD BOB Winner not what KC want Controversial

Two wrongs don't make a right.

My view is that I don't give a rodents rear end what is happening to other breeds....I will leave that to the people that are "into" that particular breed.....
But for goodness sakes, it really IS time that the GSD people on ALL parts of the globe, got together, talked like adults and saved our Breed, returning it to it's former glory before we lose what little is left of it now.

If you pull on something from both ends long enough it stretches and then breaks, usually beyond repair. The GSD is almost out of elasticity...it's gonna break soon people!!!!

Plenty of other mouse, rat and other species genes do the same - the Pearl gene in mice and rats for instance, and DownUnder in rats. It just means the mother has a smaller litter than normal. Reabsorption is normal for many species in any case, including dogs. It doesn't create any major issues when the homozygous gene is the cause.

Doesn't have to be Tobiano, Appaloosa or Overo.... or even Sabino. How about the white spotting genes in Border Collies and Huskies (to name but two which have the gene in their makeup), known as Irish pattern among geneticists, which is phenotypically similar to Panda Shepherds.

Oh and by the way - Weimaraners are a combination of blue dilution (dd) and Liver (bb) genes. If as you suggested earlier, a marriage of those two colours causes health problems, then why do we have millions of healthy Weimaraners?

Sometimes it is not about colour, or colour genetics - but the background of the lines themselves, as has been proven many times in other species and indeed in some lines I've worked with.

Merlins mum you are still avoiding answering my question

I am not what I am saying is how much is it the environment they are shown in at Crufts, has anyone here actually seen the BOB GSD shown at an Breed specialist show where the dog is moving in a natural environment? you only have to watch some of the difficulties the humans having running on the green carpet.

That looks like a dog from the 1920s

Are you seriously trying to suggest that this dogs movement was poor because of the carpet????

So it was all down to the green carpet?

Rearrange the following words - straws, clutching, at.

I never said it did Dave, you will find GSD enthusiast from around the globe working together, sharing information especially around genetic conditions in certain lines, even in this country including working and WG show line breeders, but how many contributing to this thread currently own or have owned the breed? or even have extensive knowledge of the history of the breed, past mistakes by whom? where?
If you study current pedigrees especially some of the more recent ones then you will find progress on diluting previous bottlenecks done by breeders of the past.

No what I am asking if anyone here has actually seen this dog move in the flesh on natural ground not in a man made environment? if you havent how can you comment? can your dogs run 20km without tiring? I bet very few can (Shona you dont need to answer this one, I know yours can)

see previous post this responds to you aswell!

Back to structure and gait...oddly, I beg to differ Dave, I care about humans breeding dodgy looking dogs.

Wildmoor, When I mentioned straight lines I was referring to the endurance test. Do they lap football fields for that, or is it a course? As for not used to inside, nor were Finnish Lapphunds from Finland competing at Crufts. They have to cope with thick snow and sheet ice instead

The footage you posted of the rough collie showed a dog so over angulated in the rear it couldn't step out properly, the dripping coat (hardly a necessity) didn't help. The bulldog couldn't take on a bull and the Pug and Peke are in trouble. For me, the Neo Mastiff and Basset are sad examples of dogs. There are others.

Yes we can health test, but only for diseases already there. In the GSD there are many. But testing alone will not cure the ridiculous overagulation that prevents a dog from standing upright unless one rear leg is in the next ring and/or gaiting without wobbling. That needs a change in the written standard as a first step.

What saddens me is that a magnificent dog has been ruined by human selfishness for short term glory and ignorance.

Pam,
I was not saying you did...sorry if it looked like that was what I was inferring, which I wasn't.

Whilst I agree with most of your latest reply, this work needs doing by everyone and now....Everyone in GSD's not just a select few....You and I are otherwise going to be witness to an even greater decline in the breed we love so dearly.
The constant bitching between the various factions within the Breed and the constant bickering about who is right and who is wrong and which registration authority is right/wrong and all the he says, she says, they say, we say that is happening all day every day on dog forums is never going to help the GSD. I like you, have my preferences regarding the GSD ( I think we vary a bit but unsure how much )but it's surely time that the GSD world puts aside it's differences and starts thinking of the GSD. Tomorrow, when all the bitching between the factions has lasted another 24 hours longer will I fear one day be 24 hours too late.

Well of course we haven't, you know that!

I bet there are a fair few Huskies, Collies and working Gundogs that can run 20km without tiring, yet they don't have movement like the BOB GSD I saw this year, thankfully.

I couldn't careless how much endurance the dog has, that dog has poor movement imo and looked very uncomfortable. If you want to believe the carpet caused it then so be it.

I'm no expert on GSDs, far from it, but seeing that dog move made me wince. That reaction alone tells me a dog with such conformation is wrong.

No I haven't seen him elsewhere, does his angulation change on natural ground??? and yes they can (one is 12 and properly angulated mind you!)

Hi Mary sorry I thought you were referring to show training, the AD is completed on a variety of surfaces that are suitable for the handler to ride alongside on the bike, such as pavements, gravel, dirt tracks etc.
The SV/FCI standard as not been changed since August 1996 it is peoples interpretation of this, the UK one as been revised several times though not sure as I do not follow that one.
As I have said Mary there are some good breeders out there but it is finding them, and as I have stated not all GSDs are over angulated, see my previous post about viewing several thousand over the course of 3 days, including work lines.

Dunno, havent measured how far we have gone - but I have never yet seen them tire, and they can trot inside, and they can stand still without looking deformed
and all of that without the careful breeding of the so called experts who are blinded by rossettes and for some reason cannot see what is happening to the back end of the GSD!

Rips only someone in GSDs or who has owned one can comment on canine movement! That of course puts most of our all-round judges giving out tickets at a distinct disadvantage....yet I still allow them to go over my dogs.
If I were in the GSD breed I wouldn't be taking about serious constuction problems, nope as Dave said I'd be whingeing about 'my type'.

I will pm you Mary

UK KC Breed Standard For The GSD was last amended in October 2009 Pam

They made one or two amendments just after PDE

Just like the SV/FCI standard, the UK KC standard seems to be just as variable depending on who is reading it.

I have not used the term "whingeing" Mary:? hehehehe