Cavapoo pups, anyone have one or know of one? Discussions

Firstly have both parents had all the health tests for their respective breeds ? MRI/Heart/eye/patellas etc etc the annual eye & heart tests should have been done within a year of the puppies being born.

Secondly crossing two breeds does not give the offspring "hybrid"vigour(ie makes them more healthy)because the parents are both the same subspecies(Canis lupus familiaris).

The puppies will be a mismash of the parents you cannot forecast the coat type, colour, size etc etc.

These are not a breed they are crossbreeds & as such should not be deliberately bred for. I would hate to see puppies from my Roodee out of a poodle(or any other breed)especially the the other breed is an actigve one, as he is on the go 24/7. He is from fully health tested parents(father is over 5 & has a clear heart & comes from generations of dogs with clear hearts into their teens).

These designer crossbreeds are usually sold for more money than the two breeds they are bred from with false claims that they are healthier & allergen free !

False (but funny).

The term 'hybrid vigour' is synonymous with heterosis and the autonym to the term 'inbreeding depression'.

The less related the parents = the greater heterosis of the progeny.

Spot on. .....but how many times does it need to be said??

Yes but it dosent mean every BYB looking to make a quick buck should be putting together any old unhealthy but cute dogs to make all sorts of weird crosses, charging the earth and saying they will be healthy cos they are crosses
There are plenty of people with unhealthy crosses
I totaly agree there is something v wrong with how some pedigrees are bred - but I cant see how you could find a good breeder willing to breed mutts as it is just too unpredictable
I will continue to rescue my lovely, individual and hopefully healthy mutts

I never mind ignorance (after all I'm ignorant of more subjects than you can shake a stick at).


But willful ignorance....

It is difficult to promote open registries without seeming to promote some of the worse of breeders at the same time. After all the disreputable have always been quicker to respond to market trends than the establishment. However disreputable breeders exist in the pedigree world as well. We know it and we know that we should research our breeder and not just assume he is good because he breeds pedigrees. I suggest that we should afford cross-breed breeders the same criteria.

If we look at the code of ethics of the Labradoodle club we see a similar standard to many breed clubs (actually superior to several). Closer to topic - if we look at the ethics of the Cavalier Recreation Project we see standards way in advance of any breed club. Of course 'stated' ethics and 'actual' ethics can vary but if we recap the message I quoted from Lesley Jupp, the chair of the CKCS Club of Great Britain, we learnt that the breed club has refused to include breeding guidelines for syringomyelia into their code of ethics even as a recommendation! Not a requirement, just a recommendation - but the breed club refused the advice of neurologists, geneticists and its own committee and voted down the proposal by a substantial majority.

In view of this can we really believe that pedigree cav breeders are ethically superior just because they don't outcross?

Rescues rock but that's a different argument.

Incorrect! A Boxer graded with a heart murmur of 1 (which is acceptable within the breeding guidelines for Boxers) was crossed with a Parson Russell Terrier which do not have any serious heart complaints. One of the offspring had a mrmur worse than the Boxer grade 1 so it does not follow that crossing them together will prevent a heart murmur. If you want a breed that isn't prone to heart problems then I'd suggest just go for the poodle side. However, they do need to be eye examed and DNA tested for prcd-PRA at the very least.
Becky

Boxer / PRT!?!?!

Tell me that was an accident.

Please!

(BTW one case does not undermine a probability estimate)

I know what you mean and I do agree that it seems that something needs done for some breeds

I am against producing any new breed tho - its not just the health you have to take into account but the conformation and the temprament and from what I have seen crossing 2 breeds produces random results - so making a new breed would be somewhat wastful

If breeds that need new blood then it should be done so carefully with lots of planning and advice from genetisists and health experts and all sorts

Oh perlease
dogsey police here we go again

luke, whats wrong with people arguing against the over-populating and the over breding of the dog population?

Maybe he's never visited a rescue centre Krusewalker?

Actually, yes I have sarah im not an idiot
My point isn't what the discussion is about, it's yet again theres a new member and people go in for the kill. There's a certain amount of tact which I personally feel, and so do others, should be exercised in cases like this..new members must think we're a really friendly bunch! Educate yes I totally agree, don't slaughter, judge and belittle a new member on behalf of the fact they are considering whatever, good grief!

I totally agree Luke - approach is everyting.

Unfortunately some people have quite large feet ;-)

People seem to forget that longerstanding members know how certain other members by have size 15's, or lack certain essences of tact, or just simply tell it how it is..and though not always well received, we get how the ball rolls However, new members do not. They are not aware of how members behave, and I for one would never have stuck around this place all those years ago when I joined if I'd have been spoken too like certain new members do! The whole speaking down too thing isn't appropriate, at all. Nor is the general approah of going for the jugular, rather than a simple bit of manners.

Having had the heartache of losing Cavaliers to both SM & MVD My only thoughts are of the poor puppies bred from untested parents with the claim that they are going to be healthier because their parents are two different breeds-which is total nonsense.

My puppy Cavalier isn't inbred to any great degree & has generations of long living healthy dogs behind him

SOrry you feel that way - personaly I dont think anyone was having a go at the OP, I think we all feel for them totaly
But I am not going to jump up and sing the praises of someone breeding crossbreeds

What would you prefer - we were all nice going 'oh I wonder how cute they are going to look?' giving them a chance to settle in - and then once they have the pup then telling them the other options out there and how to avoid a bad breeder??

Ben you have a very good point, but so does Luke.

There are ways of approaching things, but as Joedee pointed out, some people care only for the welfare of the dogs and not how their posts could come across to a new member.

Shouldn't we ALL feel like this? After all, dogs cannot stand up for themselves - so we have to do it for them, don't we?

Oh dear!!! I hear sounds of the dreaded "responsibility" thread here, where I got hung, drawn and quartered for saying stuff like you've just said Luke!!!!! I agree with a lot of what you've said No matter how much we care about the dogs, we can still be welcoming to newcomers. That's just basic manners