Most UK trainers would refuse to allow a dog wearing a choke chain in their class. I think they would pass out at the mere sight of a prong collar. The majority of qualified trainers over here use some version of clicker training these days. Some of the most highly regarded trainers come from the US - Karen Prior, Patricia McConnell, and Jean Donaldson, are some of my particular favourites, but there are many more.
No Azz they don't. Pressure and pain are two different things. Abusive owner can use it to cause pain, that's not how they work though. I don't see it as likely to happen. Considering the police and military dogs are trained with them by professionals, why would they be likely to inflict that type of damage on a dog. I'm not disagreeing if that's what you man, but we can't assume this poster is an idiot and would use it to abuse their dog like the second pic. Which would take what repeating and hard jerking and hanging the dog in the air to cause that damage?
People agree or disagree with him. I personally don't care for him and think he's a little off. His methods are not always the best. At times he does nothing to help a dog but is raved about? My big peeve is with him and DA Pit Bulls and the preventable fights he allows to happen. I however don't believe he causes pain when he will poke a dog. That's why I said that. As for prong collars and pain, got don't need to cause pain to use a training tool. Dogs can learn without pain. It gives direction more than anything. Herm Sprenger nice products! I've never seen them actually sharp / pointed, if they exist that's possibility to cause injury easier. It is difficult to cause injury with a proper prong collar. Dull, blunt tips, some also have rubber caps. The point isn't to cause pain.
Some people like him others don't. Training is like anything else everyone has their methods. What works for one dog might not work for another I don't pass judgement on training everyone has their own way.
If all they do is cause pressure, then why doesn't a normal collar suffice? It's because these collars are designed to prong. Police/military forces in the UK (and many other countries) only use positive training methods - you won't see any prong/pinch collars, choke chains or electrics shock collars used by our forces
Lol no, it's not a 'stim' it is an electrical shock - that is how they work - a current passes from one prong to the other. We often say this to people who say they don't hurt - let us put one on your neck and give you 'stims' ...so you can see for yourself
This is exactly what Kula's neck looked like after her previous owners used a prong collar on her, they claimed they needed the prong collar to control Kula funny how my brother only uses a harness & has full control of her. [Owners brought the prong collar from America as banned here in UK]
Yes been banned since 2012 think that's what it said on the online shop, (was looking at collars clicked on the prong & it stated unable to ship to uk due to being banned)
Tina they are not banned, due to pressure Amazon has stopped selling them but they can be bought on Ebay/online through a UK company .
Because a normal collar is flat. Yes they have the prongs, which apply pressure not pain. I think it is very clear that pain and pressure are not the same. I do not believe if one uses them to cause pain that it would be a very effective training method. If they are really trying to train the dog at all, rather than be mean. I believe misusing it would cause the dog fear, resistance and/or confusion. In some cases with some dogs results in the handler being bitten. I am aware, but what I meant was since mostly professional people use them they are not likely to be used to abuse.
I would like to know if the story with the photos is known? Any background information would be good. As not even improper, harsh correction would cause those wounds. The amount of pressure it would take would be significant and likely achieved easier with continuous effort. If a dog was caught up on something by the collar or if the collar was placed then not removed as the dog grew this could happen. Neither of which would be done by a responsible owner. Neglect can cause anything which is deemed safe or seen as acceptable to be dangerous or have an unacceptable result. Embedded collars cause serious damage. Dogs can be hung from leads. Hoarders can keep dogs in tiny urine & feces filled crates. A dog can be left in the elements and starved in the backyard fence or kennel. The same is true of tether, they could as well get entangled as well. Anyone could take photos of a dog victim of such situation and use it to campaign against them. Even though they were misused or negligence issues. Which is the truth of the prong collar too.
When does pressure become pain? When pointy objects are applying the full force of the pressure is probably a good start
Pressure can create pain, certainly. But pressure in and of itself isn't pain. Low pressure does not cause pain. Sustained pressure can become painful. High force impact can cause pain. Regular training / walking on a prong collar does not cause pain.
This thread isn't good to me.....including the pointy ear thing.... don't really know what to say. Dog husbandry gone very wrong I guess.....
