Are the new wolf look a like hybrids... Questions

Ok yes they have strong instincts, no they are not wild dogs, there is a subtle difference between wolf and dog, in Tassles argument for her rescued feral dog; the dog was eventually enticed into the house. This would not happen with a wolf, it would not come through that door if it was truely wild; though a wolfdog might* (see below). That is the bottom line. It may seem a subtle difference to some.

If the wolfdog is bonded to its owner then it will seek the safety of its own pack. If it is not or is abused it will rely on its instincts. When my dogs stray too far from me while walking I always use their fear of losing the pack. If I hide and am quiet the dog will return but so long as he knows where I am he has little incentive.

No I do not think you will see feral wolfdogs in years to come as its not happened anywhere else except maybe in the states where people have returned them to the wild*; thinking they are wild animals, when they are not.

There was a Russian experiment with a type of Fox, where they `domesticated` it in 5 generations. I think the wolfdog will adapt as well, unless you`re only ever going to have first or second crosses.
Every human intervention changes the animal.

Yes - there is a BIG difference between Feral and Wild....I would never say Pip was wild...he was Feral! There is a huge difference.

I would NEVER compare him to a Wolf...but yes - I would compare him to a wolfdog....they are a domsticated species!

Grovel, grovel, grovel and sincerest apologies.

Thanks - No problem - things can get very confusing.

I have been trying to remember who did that experiment, thanks for that, for some reason I had it in my head that 3 generations was the number, or was that when they were ok at being handled but not truely domesticated? I was talking on another forum about the amount of generations needed to change temprament, my point being one generation was not enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tame_Silver_Fox

i will answer each of your qs in my opinion and what i know.

these dogs are not wild dogs, however any breed of dog which ends up as a stray will have survival instincts which is how if left as strays they will form packs and be ferral.
luckily not seen in this country anymore other than on estates where dogs are allowed to roam but not the same.

a bitch when due to whelp will if given the chance make her den wherever she wants and if left will have her pups there.it is only because we make them have their pups where we choose that they do so in a man made den.

the attempted escaping of dogs, i think most dogs will attempt to escape from confinement at some point of being confined.especially as in this singular case the dog was not in familiar surroundings and panicked and escaped, however was caught again.
as with any other breed this can happen.

the wolf or wolfdog does not have a strong instinct to survive alone,as they are pack animals and will form one of somesort,whether human or dog.

as for sightings of these wolfdogs roaming free and seen to be wolves, who knows.i would think that the wolfdogowner is less likely than the owners of any other breed to let there wonderful dogs out to roam. but if they do escape agin your far more likely to see normal breeds out wandering.
they are far too precious to be let out alone.
you are taking one case of a saarloos that had just arrived in this country and was scared in unfamiliar surroundings that escaped.
i know mine wouldnt escape because their pach is with me and they wouldnt want to leave the security of their pack.

these wolfdogs are just amazing,thats all amazing dogs.

Thankyou for your replies WDO and Banji...
back to a post from earlier, is it possible that these bitches suffer more than others because of the wolf content and the confusion when more than one bitch is whelping or in season within the same pack ?

*sighs again*

For the avoidance of confusion and purely so that you can all continue the debate with the correct facts.

IF Borderdawn is referring to my 2 3/4 bred Saarloos boys-their breeding results in a lower wolf content than a pedigree Saarloos but higher than a CSV which presumeably qualifies them as a "Wolfdog". As wolfdogs are all cross bred dogs and wolves the point seems rather mute anyway.

I have noted your comments all and am suitably chastised for my behaviour all

If any of you are interested in listening to this wee statement as its intended- and no its not directed at anyone in particular (water under the bridge for me). And please dont feel the need to answer it or let it diverge from the debate.*grovel grovel*

For me owning a wolfdog or any other dog is a LEARNING EXPERIENCE. In three months ive learnt a ****load about my boys' behaviour and what makesem tick. However, I feel as if I know very little in the big scheme of things. No folks I would not 100pcent trust them in any situation-like any dog I would never leavem alone with small kids. I dont think wolfdog owners in general particularly consider themselves "special" because of "special behaviours". I, for one, am as bemused as many of you probably are when your dog surprises you-yet again! Im sure even "wolfdogowner" with his level of experience probably gets surprised some days. I think many of us lot consider ourselves students really-thats all were just learning. Not better than a "normal dog owner" and not worse.

Inkiliveeva
I think its a reality on this site, whatever people may or may not admit, that folk get wound up and then wind each other up. Wolfdogowner makes a good point in that I think given the high feelings over this issue on all sides it is, perhaps adviseable, to be careful in our use of the terminology "wolf hybrids". Especially given that some punter has decided in his wisdom now to sellem on the open market in blighty-totally disagree with that one! I probably disagree with "wolfdogowner" in that I think Navajo has explained his point to you perfectly (if a little short) about his dog in post 19.As you know these dogs have an EXTREMELY STRONG pack instinct. As, ever, the most likely time for them to stray would probably be upon new ownership i.e. they revert to their instincts and go hide in a bush rather than stay with this new pack. I have experienced this phenomenon myself All I can say now though is that its hard to go for a s**t without Kalluk bloody following me This does not mean his recall is fandabydosy but he always follows me on a walk. He will run after stuff yes and like any dog with a high prey drive youve got to keep your eyes peeled at all times. I, like many of us, have done the old hiding behind a tree routine when hes being a bit of a ****** with the recall-when he realises im not there then he generally craps himsel and immediately tries to find me. Always more confident/arrogant in areas hes familiar with though-particularly parks close to the house. Probly knows he can find his way home-improving most days.

Now folks I really am trying to extracate myself from this debate as it becomes all consuming so if your not liking my answers please try to show restraint in the old windup

Off to pic up the dogs from mumsy. Both me and Jacqui were working last night.


Bye folks

please refer to my "final lament" Blog due to be posted in the next wee while and available in most crap bookshops

geeeeeeeeeezer!

Sigh all you like, you dont have a pedigree dog you have a crossbreed! Please dont try to convice people otherwise.

Exactly the same for anyone who buys a different type of dog, they learn how that breed thinks and behaves, thats the whole idea of pedigree dogs or types that contain certain breeds.

I agree totally.

See first point.

I have owned dogs all my life and I am still amazed at what dogs do and how they think and can learn.

geezer, how do you see your dog? as a wolf hybrid? or a x breed dog?

your post reads as though you see it as a wolf cross, but are the saarloos not recognized by the FCI as a breed of dog

Shona,

Now that I have been enlightened, I see my dogs as mongrels

I therefore have nothing further to add to the "wolfdog" debate.

Happy hunting all!

Once again I am returning pure colombo style for one more statement you people may or may not wish to discuss. As I have said above I probably cant add any more to the "debate".

A "pedigree" is a record of your dogs lineage. I have a record of my dog's lineage therefore under this definition I have a "pedigree".

I prefer to think of my dogs as mongrels though as it makes me chuckle

bye folks!

I don't think the CWD or the Saarloos is any more 'wild' then any dog. I just think the ones imported into this country so far have had little to no time spend on them and they all seem to live in a kennel environment. Put any dog in this situation and they will turn feral quicker then a dog in a stable home environment with an owner they trust.

That said i have read the CWD is a shy breed that is a bit more aloof with people, then again the same could be said of the sibe . . . .

Geezer,

I have to say that I find your animals most interesting because they are 3/4 Saarloos. There seem to be many similarities. I am always interested to hear what you have to say about their personalities on this or any other forum.

Has yours tried to get into the shower with you yet?

Seriously, we are all on a learning curve and anyone that ever says or thinks they know it all are lost. I found the Saarloos one of my biggest and most enjoyable life experiences. I am not much of a dog 'breed' type person, half my animals just turn up and the others I have looked for. What I enjoy is my relationship with them and to this end these animals have filled and exceeded my expectations.

The trouble with this type of public forum is that a few serial posters lurk with the seeming intention of picking apart anybody that dares step foot in their kingdom, thus ruining any good debate that those genuinely interested might wish to hear.

totally in agreement with this posting,from the experience with these dogs to geezers postings.

I think, much of the confusion and concerns with these dogs comes from them being compared/referred as wolf x's with so much talk of the 'pack' and so on,

I think if people just referred to them as dogs, people would be less concerned about them,
yes they have wolf content, but its a bit back in there lines now, some people have even said gds's had wolf added in the 1920s making them in some way similar,

I have done a good bit of reading on these dogs now, Im not worried about the breed at all, they are simply a breed of dog that have there own unique, traits, needs, much the same as any other breed.

My biggest concern would be, these dogs ending up in the wrong hands, this is where problems will start, we have seen it time and again with rotties,

As long as the breeders of these dogs and these x's are very careful where they place there pups, then there should be no problem with the breed.