Are silver sable GSD's rare? Questions

well doesn't that tell you something, this is happening because of people like you and irresponsible breeding who turn their nose up and LC's and Colours, a dog should be recognised for what it is health and temperament not slammed in a rescue due to its coat length!!

when was the last time you saw a colour being used as a guard dog or crossed with other breeds by back yard breeding, it is this kind of activity that has given GSD's a bad name, not the breeding of colours.

Sure there are probably bad 'colour' breeders out there but no more than any other breed and certainly a hell of a lot less than standard breeders. There are also very good colour breeders out there.

I am sure you can find something more useful to focus your energies on other than upset the owners of healthy and happy dogs, why don't you start a crusade to eliminate those breeders than produce dogs that may look the Breed Standard in the ring but can hardly walk.....surely that would be more productive

It is possible to produce a white in a litter of normal colour GSDs but very rare, this is why they tend to have taken very light dogs & bred like to like to produce the whites that are chiefly in the WALCS group today. Long coats are different the majority of GSDs carry the long coat gene as several long coats were in the initial dogs used to produce the GSD. Unlike whites who are not acceptable for shows long coats could be shown but as the standard lays down the ideal length of coat & states that any deviation from this either way is a fault they will obviously very rarely be placed, though I have on one occasion placed a long coat whenI was judging as his coat was his only fault & to be honest the two dogs not placed had many faults of a far more serious nature than length of coat.
I have walked in fields of sheep with GSDs & marremmas & I was amazed at the different attitude of the sheep to the twp breeds. THe would come nowhere near the GSDs yet walked up to the marremmas & allowed them to walk through a group without scattering. I was told by the marremma owner that in Italy they would guard the flock from within & spring out on the unsupecting wolf from in the flock.
I was fascinated how sheep could instinctively react in this way to the different breeds.

You can cut out that patronising attitude with me!!!! Of course I'm not a bl@@dy dog handler, did I say I was? No! I KNOW FOR A FACT that the dog I had from 18 months old HAD WON OBEDIENCE CLASSES at Crufts!!! I saw the cabinet full of trophies, cups, rosettes and everything, I KNEW the breeder of her!! Just so happens, this particular dog attacked one of the new collie puppies because she didn't like the way the mother of them treated it! That's all! SO, rather than have her pts, she GAVE her to me, knowing what a fantastic home she would have with me, and because I KNEW this person as an acquaintance, obviously I had seen the breeding pair she used, she was a registered breeder toboot!!!

I can only show you a picture of the dog in question, and the name I knew her as, being Tara, because the reason she gave her to me for free was under the strict instructions I could never, ever breed from her, nor could I sell her on with her excellent pedigree papers! What's it to you anyway, even if I did WIN at Cruft's? Why couldn't I possibly be the person who owned/exhibited her then? In the 4 years that I have been posting on here, have you EVER had the impression I would have a clue what to do in a showring or an obedience class? No! I thought not!!! I am just a sad woman who loves my dogs and was lucky enough to have an exceptional, obedience Cruft's OBEDIENCE winning dog, handed to me on a plate that's all!!!

Here's her picture:



We got her in about September 1981 when I was told she was 18 months old, so you can work it out from there whether she is the dog you might have in mind or perhaps have even seen?



Here's another picture of her. Both pictures she would have been about 6yrs. old. It would be nice if you DO in fact recognise her. I know what I know, and what I've seen with my own eyes, this dog DID win lots of obedience trophies at Crufts just like I said in my other post, I never said she won any CHAMPIONSHIPS either!!!!

Becaus the GSD is a breed created frm a variety of dogs (one of whom had a white parent) we are bound to get different colours appearing. I understand in the past white pups were killed or sold unregistered. Hopefully we can be a little more enlightened now? As the founder of the breed said - No good dog is a bad colour.
As far as the Sheep argument goes - still no sheep in Southend. A lot of GSD`s though.

great post!

Thought this might be helpful,it is from the White & Long coat Society, (hope im allowed to copy & paste it here)

Q: Is the White German Shepherd an albino?

A: No, the White GSD is NOT an albino. Albinos have no pigmentation whereas the White GSD has black pigmentation on the nose, eye rims, paws and around it's mouth.

Q: Does the White GSD have a lot of health problems?

A: The White GSD does not have anymore health problems than it's coloured counterpart. In many cases they are healthier as White GSD breeders do not breed for over angulations (as seen frequently in the coloured dogs).

Q: Don't White GSD have bad temperament?

A: The colour of the GSD has nothing to do with it's temperament.

Q: Is the White GSD recognised by the Kennel Club?

A: The White GSD can indeed be registered in this country under the description of "German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian)", but is not recognised in the show ring due to the fact that in 1968, the German Shepherd Club of America made the white coat a disqualifying fault in conformation. The White GSD is also recognised by the American Kennel Club and are registered as "German Shepherd Dog, Colour White"

Q: Are White GSD harder to train than their coloured counterparts?

A: The difference lies in the individual animal, not the coat colour. The White GSD is used in sectors such as the Police, Armed Forces and Security. They have even broken out into stardom and have been used in both film and videos!!

Great post, :!

Great post!

you are not sad you are a great person with great dogs, and that was a great post!

Great posT! Here Here!

The only Obedience classes @ Crufts in 1981 were the Obedience Championships. There were no Inter Regional Competitions & no World Cup Obedience Championships & No KCGC Special Pre Beginner Stakes & no YKC Obedience-how do I know ? Because I was there & the Bitch Championships was won byOb Ch Rentilloch Gingham CDEx(Int Ch Rossfort Premontion x Karenberg Ella(German bloodlines) & a medium LC . Juno was owned by Kathy Russell from Scotland & the Res CC was won by another medium LC GSD Gefni Inca CDEx(home bred out of a Heelaway bitch)owned by Norma Butler(now Ansell). Sorry the bitch given to you that "won Obedience classes @ Crufts 1981 is neither of these(I have photographs of both dogs

You wrote

& also

now that to me means that you had a bitch that won obedience classes @ Crufts in 1981 & as there were only the Dog & Bitch Obedience Championships @ Crufts & no other Obedience classes @ Crufts the inference is that she won the only Obedience class for bitches @ Crufts in 1981.

Even if you had written "I was given a bitch who won Obedience classes @ Crufts in 1981 & she was a longcoat......"the inference would still be that she won an Obedience class @ Crufts & as there was only one class that she won that one !

Very very confusing

I am sorry but I fail to see that calling people who happen to disagree with you racist anyway merits being a great post IMHO

this is only confusing to you - do you really have nothing better to do with your time an argue with people, this isn't the only forum you do it on
you need to appreciate that you opinion is just that-an opinion, what you see in your small world does not represent the dog or German Shepherd world

These dogs were not dumped because of colour or coat length they were dumped because the breeders sold dogs to people who were not suitable & then refused to take them back. Most Pet. BYB & Puppy farmers breed for money & when they have sold the puppy they consider that their interest is ended. Trouble is these sort of "breeders"breed non standard dogs that are not health tested etc(cheaper that way)so when things go belly up the owners have nowhere to go other than a rescue

Responsible breeders take back dogs they have bred for whatever reason(I took my Elvis back because his owner believed that @ 7 he would become a killer & maul his children(who were younger than the dog-information came from the Media hype of the time)He came back to me & stayed with me for the next 8 years. He wasn't a longcoat nor an exotic colour he was a Obedience & Conformation winner with a temperament that will never be equalled for me in any dog, his owner put him in rescue because he didn't want me to know he had got rid of him. Fortunately he went to our lovely rescue lady who recognizing him instantly was on the phone to me before the prev owner had driven off her drive & he was home with me within hours

I campaign long & hard against BYB, Puppy Farmers & Pet Breeders I campaign for health & character testing for not just GSDs but all breeds, but whilst anyone & his wife can breed a dog & a bitch together(of any breed & non breed)there will always be dogs sold & bred for the money alone & people who are unsuitable to be owners buying dogs that end up in rescue for the dogs sake. I also raise money for our rescue which is run on the good will of our rescue lady & her hubby & our few supporters.

Get it right the standard was changed in the 1940s to cover the temperaments of the likes of Ch Avon Prince of Alumvale & other top dogs of the time, why was the standard changed to allow this ? because the big breeders(Nem Elliot & Gwen Barrington excluded)all bred windy dogs so it was quite easy.

Well you could use your eyes I suppose to look at the starnge coloured eyes of blues & pandas(ie blue & yellow eyes)the long narrow heads, multiple missing teeth etc)

If you only know of one dwarf puppy in a litter of correct coats(BTW all the litter could be carriers & ergo should not be bred from & neither should the parents)then you have been most fortunate. I have been contacted by several people who knew nothing about Dwarfism in GSDs & after looking at pedigrees of their dogs(all LCs)several common ancestors have been found & I know that at least one produced Dwarfs in at least two of her 5 litters to various stud dogs.

If I had a dog that produced a dwarf puppy I would not hide it & breed again from the dog(or bitch)another firend had a dwarf puppy in her WSD litter. Mother & father have been neutered, & none of the litter will be bred from-now that is a responsible breeder(she kept all the males & the bitches are in safe homes & have either been spayed or are going to be spayed)

Perhaps I know a few more honest GSD breeders than you do ?

Oh & do tell me as you seem to want me to leave this forum that you have been a member of since Sept 2008, your reason being I am a racist(hm must tell OH I'm a racist as it will surprise him(being an African American)

I do not like LC or exotic coloured GSDs & IMHO they should not be bred for, if they occur in a normal litter then fine, but they should not be bred from.

I have friends who have LC GSDs & I like them because of what is on the inside of the dogs, but I would never own one.

One of my friends had her LC GSD in the Obedience Championships this year(she was returned to her breeder @ 17 weeks as unwanted & my friend was allowed to buy her as she is an experienced handler)she also has a younger GSD LC bitch from a german bred litter, lovely temperament etc, stunning colour blackest of black & deep red gold with a temperament to die for. Have judged her twice in Obedience in a class she has just started to work & she is quite stunning in heelwork. I do not dislike her as a dog but wouldn't have her as my dog

are you meant to be quoting me?

Yes indeed, and life's far too short for me anyway! Like I said, my dog had a cabinet full of cups that she had won in obedience classes, and I know what the owner told me and my eyes did not deceive me in those days, my memory nowadays does however, so maybe it was 1980, maybe it was 1982, maybe it was 1983 I really haven't got the inclincation to remember either, I just know she did! Pity I have no paperwork, but lucky I just had the dog! I'm really not interested in any more information you can throw at me, coz it really means diddly squat I know nothing, I only know about dogs, especially gsd's!

and a ps toboot! I am talking 1980 something that we GOT this dog, so she would have won BEFORE 1983 anyway!!!! Not when we had her!!!

There were no other Obedience classes @ Crufts in the 1950s through to the 1980's so no matter what year the only class that could be won was the Championships & as the win makes all the winners Ob Champions(& the Judge of the Championships isn't allow to judge a ticket class in the qualifying year for Crufts ensuring that the win does ensure that the dog/bitch becomes an Ob Ch)

So someone somewhere is/was being a tad untruthful

I feel that whether you agree with someones post or not, to call people racist is out of order and I personally wouldn't applaud it but as I said it is my opinion only

dont understand why your bringing me into it? i never wrote it? you have picked out a tiny bit of her post how do you know what i saying it was great for?

and i am not even commenting on 'rascism' not starting a big debate off here when it is about GSDS.
i am not a racist nor agreeing that people are racist.

think you should be talking to her not me!

You were unclear in your previous post...it reads that the standard was changed to accommodate a (nameless) breeder/ exhibitor in the 70's.

Not quite sure why you are telling me to use my eyes to look at Blue & Panda Shepherds as;
A...I was asking about Whites
&
B...I know of no other method of looking apart from using my eyes.

I see far more longcoats working in obedience now than in the 70's/80's.
Also there are more doing working trials.
People in these spheres of competition are far more welcoming & less judgmental. Judging on results, not looks.
I've been lucky enough to meet some lovely people, who have worked their way to the top in both fields & are advising & encouraging me ( & my white boy) all the way.


When I say I KNOW of one Dwarf puppy I mean exactly that I KNEW the puppy, I saw it with my own eyes....not heard about.
For all you know it could be one of the pups you mentioned could it not ?? Matings were never repeated with either parent & all pups had a non breeding restriction on them.
(There were no males in the litter)

Once again you are judging my integrity...buy suggesting I know dishonest people ....I can assure you I don't associate myself with such types.
I also don't resort to personal attacks on people that I don't know.

Please drop the holier than though slant on Rescue work...you are not alone in slogging your ass off.
Some just do it quietly.

That is a first class post there!!!!! Where did you do your training in tact and diplomacy please, maybe I should take a course?????!!

totally agree! great post!!

I`m a bit confused as to why dwarfism has anything to do with white GSDs.
I`m not going to defend what dogs I own or like because I don`t have to. It`s diversity that will save the breed, not a slavish adherance to a `standard` by people with a financial stake in their own `type` being the `Proper` one. So isn`t it a good thing we all have different likes and dislikes?
I wouldn`t own a Crufts-winner BTW-I don`t like the way they move or the angle of the backs.
And I took the racism comment to mean `if this attitude (condemning on colour alone) were translated to the human sphere it would be racist.` I didn`t think he was calling anyone a racist.
Still, what do I know - I`ve got a sheepdog that`s never met a sheep.