5 Golden Rules To Training Your Puppy - Without The Headache Training

So you believe removing a biting puppy is bullying him? Really? I don't understand that at all. How?

I get that you people don't believe in physical forms of punishment at all. I mean mother dogs DO mildly physically reprimand their puppies and so I don't TRULY understand your aversion to it but whatever.

I don't hurt dogs. I would never scruff a puppy for absolutely no reason. The dog BIT ME. I merely removed him and told him to stop. How does that make me a bully? That actually sounds ridiculous to me.

Heck IMO, thumping him up the nose wouldn't even be out of place. The dog is biting. I don't go that far because it isn't needed but I just don't understand your thoughts.

Maybe people spank their children where you live but please don’t make blanket statements like everyone in the US does that. I personally think spanking and physically reprimanded a child is wrong and possibly child abuse. If that’s what parents do where you live I feel very bad for those children, hitting a child or really anyone is wrong. Maybe you were hit as a child and maybe your parents were hit as children but that doesn’t make it right. If you choose to have children I hope you brake that cycle. Same goes for racism, it is often learned in the home and repeated, and it is wrong. I had a girlfriend of 13 years who worked in early childhood education and I’m sure she would say hitting a child is wrong, period. I’m honestly appalled at your statements and I’m being kind and gentle in my response compared to what I’d like to say. If I saw a parent hit a child in a store I’d call the police. I’ve called the police when I’ve seen very young children left in cars, sometimes when it’s too hot or too cold and also when I’ve heard them crying. Some might say I’m sticking my nose where it doesn’t belong but I’d much prefer to err on the side of caution. Little children can’t always speak up for themselves so sometimes an outsider needs too. I feel like vomiting

People spank their children in the UK as well. The statement wasn't meant like that. It happens all over the world actually. And I don't have children but just because you don't believe something is right doesn't always make it wrong. It was used as an example and not meant to take away from the topic of dog training. Racism and spanking kids has no correlation.

If you are "appalled" then that is your problem. I am "appalled" that people think they're so high and mighty just because they do things differently. I've never broken the law. Never been arrested. Never hurt anybody outside of a high school altercation which I didn't start. I don't do drugs. I am not racist or sexist or anything. I don't steal. I TRY to help people and animals when I am able. Who are you to act like I wasn't raised right? Who are you to act like my parents weren't?

I don't need you to be nice to me. I don't even know you. You target my comments because you don't agree, which is fine. That is your right, but don't dare try and tell me to "break the cycle" or imply that I should do things your way.

Say whatever you want. I can and will defend my words and myself. Trust that. And you can call police here if you see a parent spanking a child. Little good it will do you. If they don't merely ignore you (highly likely), they will arrive... Look around, and leave. Nothing will be done because nobody is hurt. You don't even know lol. I could show you some things that would truly "apall" you if you think my words are so bad. Please don't start with me.

I just wanted to understand what Chris was talking about. Didn't want to argue with you or anything, but I will if you take it there. I'm not going to talk about children or racism or anything else in any further posts though because that is not relevant to this topic or article at all.

Kids left in hot cars is terrible. It can kill them. Cannot be compared to a spanking which does not harm them. AT ALL.

This makes it appear to me that you think hitting a child is OK. To me spanking is hitting. Physically reprimanding.. it’s not discipline, it’s a larger person hitting a smaller person, a child and I absolutely don’t think that’s ok. You say UK people tend to think differently, I didn’t make it up, those are your words. Maybe people in the part of Georgia you are from think that’s ok, but I have another ex who used to live outside Atlanta who was a social worker and I’m sure she would say hitting a child isn’t ok. Corporal punishment is against the law in most states. Texas is one state where it’s not illegal, and I think that is one messed up state.

My point was racism and child abuse are often learned from parents and past on to children, through multiple generations.. that’s the correlation I was trying to express.

I have broken the law and been arrested as a juvenile, for stealing. I learned that wasn’t ok, it’s not something I would repeat. I’ve had my vehicle and home broken into, maybe that was karma... I haven’t been in a physical altercation that I started since elementary school. I have been in a few fights on the ice rink, both as a child and playing adult rec ice hockey, sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and sometimes you just have to defend yourself on the ice rink.. I have done drugs, and not all “drugs” are bad. The MAPS project is doing a phase 3 clinical trial using MDMA to treat PTSD. Johns Hopkins University is also doing a FDA approved study with psychedelic mushrooms for the treatment of depression. I personally believe marijuana is far better for people than alcohol, but our country is slow to change.. I also try and help people, particularly some older neighbors of mine.

Sorry if you are offended by my comments, I didn’t say you or your parents weren’t raised right, at least I didn’t mean too. I do think that if you were hit as a child, spanked or whatever, that your parents did you a disservice, and IF they did, they most likely learned it from their parents. So when I said break the cycle, I meant what I said, just because past generations did something doesn’t make it right and if you choose to have kids I implore you to not raise your hands to them. It’s plain wrong, IMHO.

What the heck does “please don’t start with me” mean? Are you trying to scare me, lol, thru a computer... jeez. I can say whatever the heck I feel like, and you seemed to me to be saying people in the US spank/hit their kids and I was just making it clear that’s not the case everywhere in US, and that I don’t think it’s OK. Yes people all over the world probably spank kids, it doesn’t make it right or ok.

I’m not trying to be nice or mean to you. I just took offense at the way you expressed what you did about spanking children.

What does “you could show me things that would truly appall me” mean??? I actually don’t really want to know. There are all sorts of horrible appalling things happening all over the world, it makes me sad and angry. I find the idiot who is the supposed leader of our country to be appalling. I can’t wait to go vote tomorrow!!

My apologies for vearing way of this thread, but I couldn’t help myself. I felt I had to respond. I understand if someone wants to report my comments or if Azz chooses to delete them. I hope he doesn’t because I think this is all good food for thought.

And one last thought, and I’m not a religious person by any means at all, but I do agree with “do unto others as you would have others do to you”.

Maybe 'intimidating' would have been a better choice of words that bullying, but as it's part of the bullying definition, maybe not. I totally disagree that is usually done by a peer, teachers, bosses, parents can also bully or intimidate.

I couldn't give Eddie any eye contact when he was a puppy. It really frightened him, and I got an aggressive response in return. The same applied to any dog that gave him, 'the eye', - particularly BC's.
I'm not sure whether I was making excuses for him, or whether his behaviour really was due to the appalling way he was farmed, shipped over, sold from behind glass at a dog supermarket, then in a home for two weeks before being handed over to the rescue kennel where I found him. What I am sure of, is that to try to use any negative training methods with a mentally vulnerable puppy, is only going to have one of two results - neither of which is good for the puppy.
Eddie's training centred around letting him know what he had got right, with a happy, 'Yes!', and a variable treat reward. I will use restraint, and the withdrawal of attention, but NO hitting, scruffing or staring, that would have been counterproductive. Eddie responds best to the recognition that he has got something, - a trick or a task - right. He will never be a 100% confident hound, but 90% and one or two coping tactics have served us well so far.

Dog training has come a long way over the years, when I think of some of the methods used in the past it makes me shudder.
Just to clarify that I Personally NEVER used any of these methods.

‘The alpha roll’ was first made popular by the Monks of New Skete,(Gsd Breeders) in there book’ How to be Your Dog’s Best Friend,1978 (though in later editions renounced it.
They advocated the frequent use of physical punishments such as the scruff shake (grab both sides of the dog’s face and shake, lifting the dog off the ground) and cuffing under the dog’s chin with an open hand several times, hard enough to cause the dog to yelp. The emphasis on physical punishment, particularly punishing the dog for running off and not coming when called.


‘The Koehler Method of Dog Training 1962 book is compulsion based training
Some of the Koehler "corrections" include punishing for digging by filling the hole with water and holding the dog's head under "until he thinks he's going to die", and repeating this daily for a week. He punishes chewing by duct-taping the chewed object into the dog's mouth for hours.

He recommends threading a dowel through a rubber hose and hitting the dog with it for up to 20 minutes (again "until he thinks he's going to die"), and hanging a dog off his feet until he cannot breathe and to the point of vomiting for mouthing the leash. Hitting, choking, drowning, and other techniques using fear and force are unnecessary and cruel.

Koehler insisted that participants in his training classes used "emphatic corrections", including “explosive" leash jerks, throw chains, slingshots, and high level electric shocks, explaining that tentative, nagging corrections were cruel in that they caused emotional disturbance to the dog.

I think this is a Great video, with great information on the truth about the Alpha Roll.

https://www.davekroyer.com/videos/free-video-friday-and34the-truth-about-alpha-rollingand34

Yes, definitely no Alpha rolls.
It's hard to believe that trainers like those called themselves Dog-lovers.

@who owns who

Don't start with me merely means please don't go off on a tangent about my comments again off topic because you don't know me but you just come off as so judgmental and holier than thou. You're not the only one capable of being offended. Remember that. I won't speak any further on it.

I agree about the alpha roll. To me it just sounds like a good way to get bitten. I like Labby guys. They're easy to train because they're loyal. All they want to do is please you. If you're nice to them, they will do whatever you want. They're good dudes. My boy was easy to train and he's such a nice guy. He is loyal. Would never run off anywhere no matter what. He stands by me always. He follows without me having to tell him.

I think the best golden rule to training is to show your dog LOVE, because IMO that makes it so much easier to train him.

@mjfromga

You feel better now?

Hopefully you now know better due to sites such as these and updated, modern ways of training that you would not scruff or 'expect' pure compliance in the future. Owning a dog is about teamwork, or should be at least, not a dictatorship where what you say must go. Sure, we want our dogs to listen to us, hang off our every word even, but that takes dedicated training and there should be rewards available for the dog too.

Why did you feel the need to remove your puppy by the scruff? Why not divert with distraction, use time-outs, offer something instead of biting etc. I dare say it's because you wanted instant results. I would consider scruffing a puppy and knowing better now to be bully like behavior yes.

Also, I know many people from the US and it's not as different as you make out in regards to training/child rearing.

Do I want instant results when a dog is biting me and hurting me? Absolutely I do! So daresay you are correct. And on top of that, I don't want to be bitten 7 million times before the dog learns to stop and so I don't play games with it.

The dog was not hurt. And not all places are the same, I agree with that. Here you will see people dragging their dogs around on prongs and kicking and smacking them. Shouting at them and swearing at them. The works.

I gently remove a puppy by his scruff without hurting him, but I know many that would backhand the puppy and make him yelp. It might be horrific to you, but that is just how it is here.

I have not learned any "modern" ways. I don't hurt dogs. I don't too much care that some people have their negative opinions on it because again I am not hurting any animals. If you want to call me a bully, go ahead. I can't change your opinion and can't be pressed anymore.

I won't ever own another dog after this one and so you can rest easy knowing that any future puppies don't have to worry about me removing them from biting me. Not really a good thing when you see how some of the puppies are handled here, but it is what it is. After this dog passes away, I will probably lose interest in dog websites completely.

I most certainly WOULD scruff a biting puppy if I ever was bitten by one. When it comes to biting, I DO expect instant results and I don't play games with a biting dog. Everything else I am willing to wait on and be patient with. And since you don't like it, it's a good thing you don't have to do it.

I am breaking no laws. I am harming no animals. I am merely upsetting a few people who think their way is the only way, and I can live with that.

Was listening to NPR this morning and they had a segment about spanking... The American Academy Of Pediatrics is now saying categorically that parents should NOT spank their children. Studies show it’s harmful in the long run to children. Spanking can effect how the brain develops. Says verbal abuse also unhealthy for children. Just the same as our dogs they suggest reward positive behaviors in children. 19 states in the US still allow corporal punishment including your state of Georgia. Just because people do it where you live doesn’t mean it’s ok or good.

And yes I’ve brought this up again because I think it’s an important subject despite it being off topic from the original post. You are actually the one who brought it into this thread.