White gsds - non standard colour? Questions

following on from a post in another forum...
what do people think of whites as it is a non standard colour? should the breeding of whites be stopped? and people general thoughts appreciated.

p.s. hi to the worms out the can lol

well I don't know anything about the genetics, but my thoughts are that if it is a naturally occurring colour and if there are no greater health problems associated with white rather than the standard colours, I can't see any harm in it.

But I'm not sure that I would support the breeding of any dog where the primary reason was for colour - this just seems to me (though I may be wrong) to be asking for trouble -e.g. look what happens when you breed two merles.

My personal opinion of white GSD's and some other none standard colours in all breeds is that they are not of anywhere near the same quality as the standard colours, that alone, for me, is reason enough not to breed them. My opinion only.

dogos are white for a reason,they were bread for a reason and they have a purpose ....as much as it sounds unfair,they were bread this way because they are tools for hunting...the downfall of this is hearing loss ...20% are born deaf.....a coat of white satin,a body of steal and a heart of gold........phil

I tend to adopt a live and let live attitude to most things. So as long as the dog's health and welfare is not compromised, I have nothing against white gsds being bred, and I would not rule out owning one if it was the right dog for me - I think I like the sables too much to ever own any other colour of gsd though! Plus I don't think there are workline whites.

sorry but what does happen when you breed two merles

I was just asking peoples opinions as on another forum a lot of people seem to be saying/insinuating that white dogs have a different temperament than standard colours.

There are some white breeders out there that dont breed purely for colour, yes they have white bitches but put them to standard coat gsds whos offspring (regardless of colour)will then improve (especially the white line) and be bred from to then produce whites and so on, always breeding to improve the lines but with colour in mind (with all the health tests done)
this is how my white boy was bred, he was bred for type but not colour.
This is just my thoughts though

Basically merle to merle will produce about 25% of the litter as 'double merles'.

Double merles have a much greater likelihood of being deaf and/or blind (or at least eye problems).

I was trying to see if I could find some statistics but couldn't find any on a quick look.

um...not GSDs Phil! There was a white dog in the lines at the start so it`s not linked to deafness as with some breeds.
They were culled until recently as they were not acceptable for showing. This in turn has affected the gene pool, but you still get them, and some people breed them now. I`m really not that fussed about the colour - it`s the dog inside that counts for me.

I don't think the white gene should be left alone. I think any line of GSD (well dog really) who has bad health should be "cut off".

There are also liver GSD's and Panda GSD's which are not classed as standard colour.

I personally love these two

Just had a quick peek at the standard..

If that is so I don't really see the point in excluding any colour, presumably if conformation breeders started breeding white/blue/liver/whatever the quality would improve.

Think the main problem with white Gsds is that it is thought that they all come from a line that carries epilepsy, it may not effect all whites but may be carried by most. Actually most are a sort of cream and it is nothing like the white that carries deafness in other breeds.

It would seem that whilst the incidence of epilepsy is decreasing among the 'normal colour' dogs it is not in the creams and whites but this may well be because in a lot of cases 'white' dogs are bred to be white and those of standard colour are bred for health and conformation.

Of course, there will be those breeding white to white that are trying to produce healthy, quality animals but most are just breeding white dogs.

It is one of the problems of the breeding for one trait, quality suffers and then if the resulting dogs are bred to one another the decline gathers speed and intensity till it becomes hard to find a reasonable example of a dog in whatever the desired feature is.

Like most trends for the unusual these colours will turn up unexpected in a normal litter it is when they are bred for that the problems start.

your correct in that there is epilepsy in white gsds, this, i believe originated from one particualr dog years and years back and through poor breeding did lead to more gsds having epilepsy, however i do believe that it is no more common in whites than in standard coats. Responsible breeders, such as who i got my boy from, breed away from such lines and any health issues.
Nowadays it is seen my most proffessionals that whites do not carry any more health problems than standard coats

I doubt I would personally own a white GSD, as they just don't *do* it for me - although I have met some awesome white longcoats - excellent in temperament, health and conformation.

As others have already said, when a breeder is just breeding for colour (over health, temperament etc) then that is when the problems start :-(

The problem is that most genetic conditions have familial links, and certain lines in the UK have dfective hip status, very few of those that concentrate and breed for colour or coat length do all the health tests and those that at least hip score have only been doing this for a limited amount of years. They will also breed from dogs with high hip status within these lines, unscored dogs or ones with realy uneven hips which then go on to produce high scoring progeny and grprogeny. By concentrating on one aspect colour you will loose type, affect character and hips/elbows.
I am currently compiling an elbow database for decent breeders within the GSD fraternity and there are very few, just a small number, that have had elbow scores completed by those that breed for coat and/or colour.

It's a good job we're talking dogs and not people or it would be racist.

Breed standards are starting to get right up my nose, I think it's that is causing more harm to breeds than anything else. As long as a dog is healthy I don't see a problem.

Friends of ours had white gsd a beautilul dog he was 11 when he died, they now have another and no problems with him either.

In the standard white is among the colour described as undesirable and that is because most people who love the breed are keen to keep the dogs original purpose to the fore.

There is nothing in the standard that says you can't breed dogs of undesirable colours nor if it comes to it, show them, but when you think about it to deliberately go all our to breed for just one feature is asking for the breeds health and conformation to suffer. To breed for good health and conformation and find you have the odd non stand colour crop up is one thing, to go all out to produce only that colour is asking for all sorts of other problems.

Standards are there to protect the breed and breeding together dogs of poor conformation or non-standard colour is I think you would agree a stupid way to go if your breeds wellbeing is what you care about.

I think White GSD look lovely. If there is no problem with the dogs health then i would see no problem breeding from it.

A dogs health and welfare should always come before looks. My partner owns a long haired white GSD and she is in perfect health and has a fantastic temperament

hi, well said, we have had gsd's all our lives, love them to death, this time we have brought a sable/white one for a change he is lovely, just as soppy as normal ones, have had short coated, long coated, the only thing that is diffrent is personality in each one, just like people, they can not help what colour they come out, if they are healthy that is all that matters.

I love GSD's and have had them in the past for a number of years, either as pets or foster dogs.

From what I had been told, I have always thought that whites were neurotic in behaviour and temp, and also had more health prolems than the standard colours, such as blindness, deafness, HD and epilepsy.... Is this not the case then?

no definatly not!!!! their are some bad examples of both white and standard coat gsds with temperament and type.
some white lines carry epilepsy, just the same as standard coats. there is no evidence to suggest it is more frequent in whites.
As for behaviour, as with all breeds and types it is the way they are brought up, and a sad fact that a lot of whites are bought for colour only, and the people that do this often are lacking in the necessary knowledge to bring up a well balanced, sociable dog.
Every white gsd i know(and that is quite a few) are well balanced happy dogs with no hereditory/genetic health problems.