I know there are a fair few boxer folk on here so wondered if you could provide some info. I know deafness is observed, but what is the true likelihood that a white boxer will turn out to be both blind and deaf? The reason I ask is because 1 day old white pup and 1 c-section white pup were euthanised at work today "because the majority of them are both deaf and blind". Most of us nursing staff and a couple of the other vets didnt agree with the above comment...but we had no say in the matter.
Only around 18% of white boxers are deaf in either one or both ears. This is due to lack of pigment in the ears. I have never heard of a white boxer being blind as well as deaf. Years ago white boxers were PTS because the breeders did not want to admit to having whites in their lines. Nowadays very few euthanise them and prefer to home into pet homes.
Hi, I have found some links for you,predominatly white dogs of any breed can suffer with deafness,it's due to lack of pigmentation within the ear. http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/breeds.htm http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/deaf.htm
Thankyou both for your replies The links you gave nissanmad are full of useful information. We tried to convice the partner vets that handrearing then finding loving homes was a better option....but again to no avail.
Here is a link about white boxers about all the untruths etc.. White Boxers Just reading the link it says only 10% are born deaf. White Boxers 2
Hi, Your welcome,found another which you may find interesting, http://www.aht.org.uk/clinics_small_dogs_deafm.html
Interesting this 18%. It is actually lower than the incidence of hearing loss ( bi or uni) in the Dalmatian, which is 20% in the UK( considerably higher in the USA because of the link with blue eye, allowed by their standard). As all Dalmatians are born white, this 20% applies to the population as a whole. Perhaps the person responsible for euthanasing these pups should be made aware of the fact that they were no more likey to be deaf or blind than any Dalmatian, and probably not a great deal more than a white Jack Russell, English Bull Terrier, Border Collie etc. The confusion with blindness could be because of the similar ear deformities which occur with the merle gene which does cause eye deformities, but merle doesn't occur in the Boxer.
This is where it goes over my head Could the white boxer deafness be lower than the dalmatians because white boxers are not used for breeding?
This is a post for which I am going to find it very difficult indeed to keep the tone to just the level of a furious rant. I`m disgusted that the pups were killed because of a `maybe`, a `maybe` that those concerned are so lacking knowledge on, and for the fact that deafness, be it real or `maybe possibly`, should no more be a reason to kill a dog than a deaf human :smt075 :smt089 :smt091 Some years ago, friends who adored my deaf dogs, [ my two collie boys, and at the time, my old girl, a crossbreed ], and saw how easy they were to work with - they met my two boys when I had only just got them so saw their progression from the start. Because of them, they learned much about deafness in dogs for themselves, eventually deciding that when they were ready to get another dog to join their family, they would seek out a deaf dog of their prefered breed - Boxers. They contacted every single breeder they could find in the whole of the UK in case of any white pups which may be deaf when they felt they were ready and able to provide a good knowledgeable home to one. Of all those born over several months while they were searching, not one white pup they came across was deaf. They kept searching. Eventually they found a breeder whose bitch had a white pup which was suspected as being deaf so they went to see him. They passed the breeders rigorous checks and brought him home. Guess what ? Turned out he was`nt deaf... Even if the pups had turned out to be deaf, it sure as heck does not mean they could not have had as good a life as any hearing dog. As it is, at least 80% of all canine communication is visual, yet most people rely only the remaining 20% to work with their dogs Anyone breeding dogs should be well aware of what health issues their breed are known to have occuing within it and should be ready to take responsibility for assuring the right home for every pup they have bred, including those with known genetic deafness possibilities. To just kill them, especially when they don`t know what they are talking about, is sickening and heinous imo. I hope the vet who, so wrongly imo, agreed to kill those pups at least had the sense to tell the breeder/s it might happen again and to have the bitch/es spayed, and better still to never ever breed from any dog again for as long as they live. Thank goodness no such ignorance was utilised in the cases of my white collies which *are* deaf and have lovely *normal* lives, and thank goodness for all those white collies which hear perfectly well. Whoever killed those two should be thoroughly ashamed and should keep away from such pups until he or she drags his or her self in to this century in terms of stupid old wives tales, and gains at least some basic knowledge in genetics. There were 68 breeds known in 1998 with Congenital Deafness reported, most regardless of coat color - should vets kill all pups of all the relevent breeds `just in case` ? Of course not ! I`d be suprised if the number of breeds reported was not even higher now. I weep for the little dead Boxer pups, and for all like them killed through such pitiful inexcusable ignorance
No I don't think so. It's more likely due to the fact that Dalmatian Breeders don't breed from patched dogs. Patching on the head reduces the incidence of deafness, as pigment on the outside increases the chances of pigment also being present inside the ear, which is critical for the hearing mechanism. By eliminating patched dogs from the gene pool, the incidence of patched puppies being born is reduced, and so the incidence of deafness increases.
So with white boxers being elimated from the gene pool the incidence of deafness should reduce?? But it does not does it? I don't know much about genetics but like to learn
All the white Boxers I have know have been from normally coloured Boxers. The general advice re whites is neuter, a sensible easy recourse, and certainly far less extreme and inhumane than killing them at birth ` just in case` :-(
Well no, not really. The reason for the occurrence of extreme white in the Boxer is because of the slightly unusual colour genotype of the flashy markings which have become so popular in the showring. I'll try to explain Normal white markings found in the Collie breeds and many others are usually genotype si si which breeds true and never produces extreme white, but as this si 'gene' isn't present in the Boxer. The flashy markings are produced by the genotype S sw. Now the sw 'gene' is the dangerous one. Every time two S sw flashy Boxers are bred together, there's a 25% chance that two sw will match up together and prduce sw sw - extreme white. To avoid producing extreme white, Boxer breeders just need to avoid this breeding. A flashy bred to a plain will not produce extreme white but will still produce 50% flashies (and 50% plain).
So until breeders stop breeding for flashy boxers this will not change Being an owner of a plain boxer they are just as good as flashys
The two white pups mentioned were from a brindle/white bitch. What is a flashy bred boxer (pardon my ignorance)? Do you colour + white blaze, chest and feet? with plain being monocolour - eg brindle, red, black?
Star is a plain boxer, she has a flash of white on her face and very little on her chest and feet. [attach-center]2832[/attach-center] Flashy boxers usually have 1/3 white to them. ie white collars and more white on their legs and chest. This is what wins in the show ring.
Just had a look at the westmisterKC site (have videos from this years show) and I see what you mean by flashy now albeit american flashy! The markings are almost that seen on basenji!
There's no need to stop breeding flashies altoether, just avoid breeding two flashies together. This will prevent extreme whites being born completely. Breeders will still get 50% flashies in a litter by breeding flashy x plain, the same as they would get by breeding flashy x flashy but without the 25% incidence of extreme white. This should help to illustrate - Flashy x flashy = 50% flashy 25% plain 25% extreme white Flashy x plain = 50% flashy 50% plain Plain x plain = 100% plain Obviously the exact percentages are not applicable to each individual litter. This is just the predicted rate that will be accurate over a large number of litters. I don't know if this information is getting through to breeders but it certainly should be as Boxer breeder and geneticist Dr Bruce Cattanach has done much research and written plenty too. http://americanboxerclub.org/white-deafness.html ps I much prefer the plain markings
