Origins & Practices of the British Inuit General Chat

I promised to write when I'd had some response from the British Inuit Dog Club to some of my questions, well I had a very interesting conversation with the founder today. The below is not meant as gospel, just what I've been told and my opinion of it. Please this is also not intended to have a pop at NIs, feel free to see if you can do the same, amybe we can create some bonding between the so-called different breeds.

According to her she and several other breeders left the NIS due to what she termed as the way the breed seemed to be heading, and the lack of stringent breeding practices. OK, this may or may not be true, but it underlines the several points that have been made towards bad breeding practices within the NI community, which again may or may not be true.

Just read that sentance above and realised I should be a politician, I've managed a paragraph and said nothing

She said that she took 30 dogs with her (not sure whether this was just her, or all the breakaway breeders), but had to either splay, or chop 12 of them due to them not passing the medicals. And that she didn't want to pass on those traits.

She said that they were, as a club, breeding CWDs and Saarloos, but there had not been many, less than a dozen, and strictly controlled. I think they came from Europe.

She will refuse to condone breeders that do not have a full set of medical redcords as well as HD scores, and these scores have to be of a set standard. Apparently this is why the breeders of my fella are not recognised as such with the BIDC. She went as far as to say she 'probably' wouldn't agree to my fella being studded due to one of his brothers having epilepsy.

She had heard of breeders that she'd refused going to the NIS and getting their dogs re-registered as NIs and allowed to breed.

All of the above leads me to think that this club has the best interests of the breed at heart. Obviously there is no love lost between the two clubs so some of the NIS comments may well be exagerated!? I am happy with the way the BIs seem to be headed, it just seems a shame that all these clubs can't work in harmony for the betterment of a single 'wolf dog' breed.

As I said at the beginning I don't know whether this is the truth or not, but surely it's a starting point. If anyone has any other information then I'm more than happy to see if I can corroborate it, but I will need some facts, not just a friend of a friend told me, or some breeder I heard of. If you wish to pm me names and details then I will be more than happy to take it up with the BIDC.

Ok, stands back and waits for the incoming.

Well as you may know I have been doing some research regarding NIs and have looked into BIs.
I assume its Andre you spoke to and even though me and her had a few cross words, from word of mouth and people I have spoke to she cares about her dogs and they are extremely well looked after and have lots of open space and fields and nice clean kennels.I heard she left NIS becuase didnt like there breeding ethics and believed the dogs needed new blood brought in to improve the health of the breed due to all the in breeding.
Have heard her dogs have wonderful temperaments and much healthier so if I was ever to get another NI would much rather a BI of Andre.

Hi Kcjack, I embarrassed to say I can't remember her name I'm rubbish with names, unless I've heard them a few times.

She's certainly very passionate about her dogs, and the way they should be bred. I must admit I don't think I could be a breeder as I think you have to be 'hard' sometimes, and that's not me, at least as far as animals go, people on the other hand.....

12 out of 30 isnt that good if they are breeding disqualifying faults, however credit where its due in that respect.

Its well known that NIS have allowed inferior animals to be bred from then registered their offspring, and the Epilepsy in this type of dog is also well known.

Is that it? no other comment? I'm disapointed dawn I was expecting more

No need at this point Phil. You have confirmed that the BI breeders have used CWD which was the direct opposite of what one of their breeders said, the Epilepsy is well known in these dogs, so nothing new there, but 12 out of 30 dogs did surprise me, it would be interesting to hear what made them unsuitable for breeding from.

It was along the lines of didnt improve the breed, high HD score etc. She certainly seemed to be saying the right things, and there was no doubt about her passion for the breed.

May I ask - were CWD used in all BI lines or just some? If only some then not all BI dogs are the same, are they?

going by what you say - there isn't much they can be faulted on.

So they had 12 NI's to use for the BI and then the new blood - the only thing I wonder - is that enough to sustain the breed to keep the dogs they are breeding as BI as they are now - or eventually I wonder when those NI lines have been used to their full potential will the BI then have to change as something else is brought in? [i don't mean the name re changing I mean what a BI is] I'm not a breeder so forgive me if I don't make sense. I suposse it doesn't matter if they have not set what the BI is in stone and if it's ok that it will change to suit what's best for the dogs.

That's the only question I have that springs to mind - but I don't think I made myself very clear!

The only question i really have is if the BI's left the NI's because they disagreed on breeding practises etc the why are the BI people using NI's? and why are they also breeding NI's?
Also if everyone is taking their orders from the woman in charge of BI's which i presume they are and everyone is happy with the breeding practises etc then why has no-one questioned the fact she is breeding labradors and poodles to supply the puppy market with more fluffy labradors?
Oh n i have asked the breeder this and im still waiting for a reply, i asked this about 6 weeks ago

I have no idea and nobody gets any answers, surely they are all the same!!??

Yes the Labradoodle thing, I TOTALLY agree with you! This kennel will be like the Mahlek one if not careful, dominate the gene pool and leave others nowhere to go because of so few animals.

In the first post it said she only considered 12, I think. out of the 30 NI to be suitable for her breeding so it seems she discarded the possibility of using quite a few - Mostly, she most likely loved the NI and did want to continue with it so she has but under what she see's as being best / her own ethics [which incidentally I don't know if they are right or wrong because I don't know her].

Everyone's opinions on labradoodles will be different - whether or not people think they should exist doesn't mean anything in terms of the NI / BI she breeds Unless she is farming the labradoodle out whether or not she breeds them doesn't shape my opinion on BI.

It makes no difference to me about my opinions on bi with the labrador thing im just curious.
Just the info given seems she is more for the BI so if being more for the BI why breed NI's and the question i have asked her time and time again is why did she not tell puppy buyers she was crossing bi's with czech if she was doing it for the good of the breed? Surely not telling any puppy owners is a bad thing not a good thing?

Perhaps if she did tell them she wouldnt get sales, due to if the prospective owners did some checking they may be faced with issues and legalities of keeping them?

I don't know, maybe she really believes in the NI that she has so she continues with them? I don't know about the not telling previous puppy owners about the CzW being mixed in the one's that have it because I didn't know she did that for sure?

If she has a great deal of space and time to commit to what she does then I don't see the problem in her breeding so long as she does have good ethics.

But then that brings up the next question if a puppy owner came back to her saying their puppy or dog has attacked someone because of the czch in it would she accept responsibility?

I dont know Jem.

To be honest people that breed dogs on a large scale, in kennels, usually do not "live" with these dogs. What concerns me with this type of cross, is how do they know what these dogs are really like when the oldest one is what? under 4? and has lived its life in kennels? They then sell these dogs to families as pets. We have heard first hand froma CWD owner who says they are not for novice owners, who knows what could come in out incertain circumstances with them?

See to me they are gorgeous animals and I know I will probably get flogged for this but they are no better in their mannerisms than a wild dog as they do have wolf in them. Im sure under the right circumstances they are probably lovely animals but i could never class one as a pet they are to wild for me x

I have been to these kennels and you can tell the NI from the CWD in there behaviour. The ni jump around at the kennel door to great you and the CWD stand at the back and stare at you lol.
I don't think she mixes in CWD with the NI. Unless you want to pay more for the CWD cross NI. But I do think she does them now and then.
I have no idea whos right and who is wrong in all this. But I have my dog who is a NI from a BI kennel and I am very happy with him.

Just to add someone in my town owns a NI cross CWD and its a lovely dog but you can tell it has CWD in it.
He said the breeder told him that they had to put CWD in it as they were getting to much Like GSD or MAL /Sibe. He did not buy it from Shoshone.