NI breeding ethics Controversial

Spilt from another thread seems another area of issues :-(

These questions are for breeders of NIs.

What are your personal ethics when breeding?

Do you always ensure parents are hip scored?

Do dog have to be a minimum age before breeding?

Do you vet potential owners?

Do you register your pups anywhere?

How many litters would you have from a bitch?

Do you breed for looks or look at temperament as more important and health.

I feel once we get all the major questions answered then maybe we can move forward with the breed and start to enjoy the positive side :?

You forgot..

Highest hip score you would breed from??

Would you breed from your dog or bitch if it was aggressive??

Would you breed from a rescue (or a dog you bred that was later returned to you)??

Would you sell on your breeding stock once it had used it its usefulness??

Eye tested??

Not a breeder but here is the ethics of the NIS reg breeders that is on the website for anyone who cares to look . . .

Breeders Code of Practice





1) Breeders will properly house, feed, water and exercise all dogs under their care and arrange appropriate veterinary attention if and when required.



2) Breeders will agree without reservation not to perform an operation that alters the natural conformation of any dog.



3) Breeders will not breed from a bitch in any way that is deleterious to the bitch or the breed.



4) A bitch cannot be mated under 14 months of age. (KC say 12 months)



5) A bitch cannot whelp twice in a 12-month period.



6) A bitch cannot whelp after her eighth birthday.



7) A bitch cannot whelp more than six litters.



All breeding bitches should be positively identified (microchip, tattoo or genetic profile) (KC rule for licensed breeders only)



9) Breeders agree only to sell dogs where there is reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life and will accept a dog back or help with re-homing if the initial circumstances change.



10) Breeders will supply written details of all dietary requirements and give guidance concerning responsible ownership and training when placing dogs in a new home.



11) Breeders will offer ‘after sale’ advice on the telephone to new owners.



12) Breeders will not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers, retails pet dealers or directly or indirectly allow dogs to be given as a prize or donation in a competition of any kind.



13) Breeders will not knowingly misrepresent the characteristics of the breed nor falsely advertise dogs nor mislead any person regarding the quality of the dog.







The Northern Inuit Society does NOT allow the crossing of Northern Inuit’s with any other breed of dog – any breeder discovered doing this will be struck off the Society and no more litters will be registered to that person/kennel.

Well ok im not a breeder of anything but IF i was (as one day I might breed dogs...)

What are your personal ethics when breeding?
Would be to always do my best for the dogs, puppies and owners. Always have any pups back for any reason. To be as fully prepared for any eventuality as is humanly possible. To always put the interests of the dogs first.

Do you always ensure parents are hip scored?
Yes i would not breed from any dog which didnt have a good hip score (which i personally would like to be a total of 10 or less)

Do dog have to be a minimum age before breeding?
I wouldnt want to breed from a dog unless they were over 2 years of age as i believe these are a slow maturing breed. But i would also wait longer if i felt the dog in question needed more time. And i would also like my bitches to have had at least 2 seasons before they were mated.

Do you vet potential owners?
Yes i would. Very very much so. I think i would rather put people off having one of my pups that feel i wasnt thorough enough in my vetting them! :twisted: My dogs are part of my family so any owners would become extended family also! And i would keep in contact with every single one of them too. ;-)

Do you register your pups anywhere?
They would be registered with the relevant society. i.e if the parents are NIS i would register the pups with NIS, if they were TIDA the pups would be registered with TIDA etc

How many litters would you have from a bitch?
I think two would be plenty. Possibly three is fine. But definitely no more than that. I wouldnt want to go through pregnancy or labour more than three times so i wouldnt make my dogs do it either lol

Do you breed for looks or look at temperament as more important and health.
100% for temperament and health. I got my dogs because of personality and temperament and i would breed for the same. I would much rather have a dog that isnt perfect in looks but has wonderful personality and health and is a fantastic companion dog than the most beautiful dog who has a questionable personality or health.

Hope its ok for me to answer this and if i ever breed dogs please feel welcome to bring me up on anything of the above ;-) ;-)

To add my reply to Louises questions...

Highest hip score you would breed from??
I personally wouldnt breed from anything over 15.

Would you breed from your dog or bitch if it was aggressive??
Absolutely 100% NO. Never in a millions years. Dont agree with it at all. Would rather eat my own leg than breed from an aggressive dog.

Would you breed from a rescue (or a dog you bred that was later returned to you)??
I would not breed from a rescue. I MIGHT consider breeding from a pup that had been returned to me but it would have to meet all the criteria that any of my other breeding dogs has to meet.

Would you sell on your breeding stock once it had used it its usefulness??
No. Not in a million years. My dogs are my family. I wouldnt sell on my parents once they stop looking out for me or helping me. Like i said my dogs are my family.

Eye tested??[/QUOTE]
Yes any breeding stock would have to have clear eye certificates as well.

x

I;m sorry but I noticed in the post above not to bree from a bitch younger that 14 months, well IMO that is way too young for a bitch that has been come from the combinations of breeds that the NI has come from, the KC recomendation of 12 months is only a guidline for breeding from small quickly maturing breeds not slow maturing as the dogs NIs are from.

mo

LOL Kristina make your mind up??

Personally if you stick to all you have written I would consider you to be an ethical breeder..(hipscores aside..LOL)

Havent several had hind dew claws removed?

The Breeders Code of Practice listed above is very basic and does not even touch on health issues. Therefore someone could breed from a dog that has a high hip score and/or has failed an eye test and yet still comply with the Breeders Code of Practice?

Another good question to ask is why are they breeding? Most good breeders will only breed when they are looking to keep a pup themselves (obviously this isn't always possible, but in the vast majority of litters I believe the breeder should look to keep a pup - sadly I know of breeders who have bred several litters (we are talking almost in double figures here) and only kept 1 pup - what is the reasoning behind this if not merely to supply the market? ).

Lol sorry Louise i didnt explain myself very well. In an ideal world i would like the dogs to have a hip score of 10 or less but i would consider breeding a dog with a hip score of 15 IF the dog they are being put had an excellent hip score - for arguments sake - of 4 or less. And of course they are excellent in all other areas. Hope thats a bit better put hehe x

Oh yes and i think i would keep my favourite of the litter too. Not to say that is the 'best' of the litter but whichever one i felt i bonded with most. My favourite if you like lol x

I am not a breeder but often dream about it for the future...

I would breed with the aim of breeding the 'perfect' NI.

I would.

I wouldn't breed until they were at least 2 years old.

I would.

I would breed NIS registered NIs.

I don't know enough to be able to say.

I would breed for a combination of all three: Health, temperament and looks - in that order of importance.

My questions ARE answered. The breed IS moving forward. And I AM enjoying the positive side.

Highest hip score you would breed from??[/QUOTE]
I don't know enough about it to say.

No.

I wouldn't breed from a rescue, but I would breed from a rehome if everything else was great.

No. A dog is for life, not just offspring.

I don't know what the risks of eye problems are or the benefits of testing so would look into it further.

I'm not a breeder at the moment, but do plan to be in the future.



Q. What are your personal ethics when breeding?

A. Health and temperament would come above looks

Q. Do you always ensure parents are hip scored?

A. Yes, most definatly. I wouldn't even consider mating from a dog with no hip score.

Q. Do dog have to be a minimum age before breeding?

A. Yes, aged 2

Q. Do you vet potential owners?

A. Yes, I most definatly would

Q. Do you register your pups anywhere?

A. Nope, they would only be registered with the NIS, even if it was a pet only registration


Q.How many litters would you have from a bitch?

A. I would only allow my bitch too have 3 litters at the ages of 2, 4 and 6. Then she would be spayed.

Q. Do you breed for looks or look at temperament as more important and health.

See first question.

Too answer Louise's questions


Q. Highest hip score you would breed from??

A. 15

Q. Would you breed from your dog or bitch if it was aggressive??

A. No, never

Q. Would you breed from a rescue (or a dog you bred that was later returned to you)??

A. No, the dog or bitch would be spayed or neutered. Edited too say that if it was one of my dogs that I bred, if it met all the criteria for the NIS breed standard and was a good example of the breed, then I would consider it.

Q. Would you sell on your breeding stock once it had used it its usefulness??

A. No, my dogs are pets first and foremost. It would be like selling my children off once they lost their usefulness

Q. Eye tested

A. Yes, although that's my choice, not one that's stated by the NIS.

Maybe it should be added in then..seeing as 2 of the founder breeds are tested for hereditary eye conditions

Thankfully there's been no reports of eye problems in the NI's too date.

I'm sure if the NIS thought that there was they'd make eye testing mandatory (that is MY opinion, not one that's necassarily shared by all other NI owners)

How will you know if there is a problem if you don't test? :?

Obviously I don't advocate that people do every test under the sun on the off chance a new ailment springs up in their breed, but given the fact that some of the founder breeds are affected for hereditary eye conditions, would it not be sensible to test?

I can't speak for every NI owner I'm afraid. All I've said is that I will eye test because of the founder breeds used.

and/or very uneven one`s. I thought it was deemed wrong to use a dog with a difference of three or more for each hip but it seem`s I`m wrong on that.... :?

Edited to add, [ clicked send too soon ], I dread to think of the consequences of putting a very uneven scored dog to a high scored dog, it should`nt be considered imo in a genepool which is more than large enough to avoid it, I would hope that does`nt go on ?

It is good that some are, I just think it would be advisable for more to do so

4) A bitch cannot be mated under 14 months of age. (KC say 12 months)



5) A bitch cannot whelp twice in a 12-month period.



6) A bitch cannot whelp after her eighth birthday.



7) A bitch cannot whelp more than six litters.





I had issues in the beginning but reading them just narks me beyond belief.

6 litters is a disgrace thats not a pet its a bloody machine.