My Feral Pei's - how can I help them lose their fear? Behaviour

Hi all,
I am a rescuer mostly, I used to breed and show Greater Swiss Mountain dogs and Fila Brasileiro. I also own cattle dogs all rescues.

In April of 2014 I pulled two Pei mix moms ready to burst with puppies from the elist at my local shelter. April 28 to be exact and on May 3 the black one (Blackie) whelped 7 pups and on May 6 the red one whelped 7 pups. The moms are either sisters or mother and daughter, and Ginger may have been someones pet at one time, but blackie clearly has had no good relations with humans. When the shelter transported them out to my rig they had both of them in a wheeled garbage tub and blackie was attached to a catch pole, ginger was on a lead. when they dropped the tub blackie raced out, freaked out, ran under car next to me while still attached to pole and proceeded to become non responsive defecating and peeing and I had them drag her to my car and get her inside it before they released pressure on the noose. She had a seizure in my van it lasted approx 15 seconds and she recovered quickly.

It has been quite an adventure for us all a year later all pups but two placed in responsible homes, vaccinated, fixed and chipped. I still have two pups here, one is Peg who is blackies daughter, Blackie chewed off her front leg on day 3 (calcium deficiency most likely) and Ughy who is so ugly he is cute is deaf. He had a cleft palate at birth and I had to tube feed him til he could eat solid foods.

Initially when the girls were brought out from shelter and put in my van I made sure they didnt see me during the incident with blackie, I didnt want them to associate me with anything bad. Ginger was in such horrid shape and I couldnt get them to take any supplements no matter what i hid it in. I had to boil whole chickens to feed them to try and get calcium in them. I had to put them in a small wire crate to give them each a shot of oxy after whelping and a couple days worth of pennicilin shots too.

I had to raise Gingers puppies, her life was threatened if she continued to try and produce milk for her babies. All the time spent and all the interactions with the moms have been positive, I never try to touch them, and they are no different now than the first day. I have since gotten them both fixed, not a fun task, but they are both still afraid and non trusting. I have tried to find somewhere they could go together, someone with lots of land, to just let them live a semi feral life, I tried separating them to work on them individually but Ginger was able to jump out of the courtyard so I couldnt keep her contained away from Blackie. I have tried to find someone to take on just one of them, but people think feral somehow translates to vicious or aggressive.

These two girls dont have an ounce of aggression in them, they are awesome with other dogs, and we have a routine established which makes everyday interaction non stressful. They are easy to manage and sometimes I catch Ginger following me around out in the barnyard til I notice her and then she runs away. Blackie wags her tail at me sometimes, but still they race around in the barnyard everyday afraid and wanting to flee back into their den inside my 12x24 building where I have a chain link partition for them.

It is a fine line every day dealing with these two. I try to keep all interactions with them non confrontational and positive, I give them no reasons to fear me, yet everyday they act the same, running scared and afraid. I am highly considering euthansia because I dont see how spending the rest of their very long lives living inside a building afraid of the world outside those doors is healthy?

Not knowing alot about this breed and they are not purebred, perhaps someone has some suggestions on how to handle Pei in general, are they normally one person or family dogs, are they stubborn and hard headed, are they distrusting and fearful, are they loners, what breed traits could be present in these two girls that I could understand and try to work with or around to get thru to these girls?

I know that if I could separate these two I would have a much better chance of rehab but together they just feed off each other. I have such a small tiny minute level of trust as it is, it is hard to determine when positive goes to negative and its two steps back zero steps forward.

So let me say thanks now and look forward to hearing comments.

Hi Jaime ...I'm a Pei owner and mum to 23 month old Georgina who's my second Pei and Gwylim an 18 month MIniature Schnauzer..I'd like to say what a exceptional person you are for rescuing Blackie and Ginger and all you have done for them and their puppies. I'd also like to apologise for the delay in replying, I've been trying to decide how to answer the points you've raised as Pei are quite complex dogs to understand.

Perhaps it's best to start by telling you something about the breed. Pei are an ancient breed originally used as a general purpose farm dog and to guard the property and stock. By nature they are serious minded, aloof, suspicious and extremely stubborn but also sensitive and need to be treated firmly but gently. They're medium exercise dogs, so don't need long walks and are content to spend the day on their own territory.. Even off leash a Pei won't stray too far from home. They usually get on with other dogs and animals, are not aggressive or confrontational preferring flight over fight. Pei tend to be observers rather than participators in life and will spend a lot of time watching people and what's happening around them. They're also highly intelligent, discerning and sensible A well balanced Pei will form strong bonds with those they love and make a loyal family dog.

As I have some experience of similar behaviour with Georgina I'll tell you something about her and how I've tried to deal with her problems I've had her since she was 9 weeks old. At 4 months old she developed severe entropion and for reasons I won't go into she was partially sighted until 9 months old. During that time even the slightest noise would send her into a panic and she'd run around the house or garden like a lunatic until she was completely exhausted. Because my garden is extremely large there was little I could do to about the outside panic attacks apart from putting her in a thunder shirt and giving her Skullcap and Valerian, so I concentrated on keeping her calm and stress free in the house. I spent hours with her using TTouch massage, whispering to her, singing lullabies and leading her to, and identifying noises that caused her anxiety, like the TV or the ping of the microwave.

At 9 months old after her 4th operation her sight was good enough to start training which she loved, but I found despite having 80% of her sight whilst she would settle in the house, she'd run up to the top of the garden whenever she thought it was time to come in (which meant having drops in her eyes), or we were going out in the car (which she associated with going to the vet).. The problem with car was sorted out in about 2 weeks by my sitting on the back seat each morning using her favourite toast and marmalade to lure her into the car. Unfortunately toast and marmalade held no appeal in the evening, nothing did! She only had to see her lead which I used to take her into the house with and she was off! If I followed her, talked to her, tried to head her off or made any attempt to catch her it only made her more wary. Many nights it would take over 2 hours before she'd give up avoiding me and allow me to put her lead on and walk her inside. She never barked at me or showed any aggression it was all passive resistance which then started me thinking that perhaps she might respond if I "played her back at her own game". I made sure her lead was well concealed before I left the house and when I went out I ignored her and instead of walking towards her, I walked away from her usually towards the driveway gates. At the gates I'd stand slightly sideways so I could watch her out of the corner of my eye whilst pretending to be interested in what was happening down the road. It didn't always work but often she'd come and stand next to me which was when I had to be very careful not to scare her off again before I took hold of her collar and put her lead on.

At 13 months old she had her final major eye operation and was spayed at the same time which left her traumatised and undid most of the work I'd done. She only had to see me walk out of the front door and she'd run off so it was back to the drawing board! As the method I'd used didn't seem to work well anymore (partly because Pei are astute at anticipating your moves), I decided to try walking towards her, not directly, but in a wide semi circle which would bring me behind her and prevent her from running up to the top of the garden, again ignoring her, but watching out of the corner of my eye. I also took some really smelly treats in the hope they might tempt her. Again it worked sometimes but not always, the most noticeable difference was that she seemed to regard it more as a game because she'd give me a play bow before running away and I found if I turned my back on her and walked in the opposite direction she'd follow me and stand long enough to put her lead on. The biggest change in her behaviour was buying Gwylim as a companion dog. He's a very obedient, laid back dog and he and Georgina are inseparable and I think he's helped her become more relaxed and confident That was 9 months ago and although she's not perfect and still has lapses she's definitely so much better than before.

I'm sorry this has been all about Georgina but there seem to be some similarities between Blackie, Ginger and Georgie's behaviour. I think the fact you've not mentioned that they bark at you is a good sign because it means they don't feel you're a threat. Also, Ginger follows you which to me means she'd like to come closer but is too afraid and lacks the confidence to do so. Blackie wagging her tail when she sees you is also a positive. Pei have a very subtle body language and often the only way you can tell what they are thinking is by watching their tail. One thing I forgot to mention is that Pei thrive on praise, praise and more praise! As Ginger seems to be more confident than Blackie would it be possible for you to concentrate more on rehabilitating her? You might find that because they're so closely bonded Blackie will follow her lead. I'd also be inclined to leave them as a pair because you might have more problems than you now have if you do so. If you look at the Shar-Pei Rescue of Great Britain you'll find they always try to rehome two bonded Pei together rather than separating them. You mention that they're both well socialised with other dogs. Is it possible to integrate them with a group of well balanced dogs which will help them relax, gain more confidence and learn from the other dogs? I'm not sure where you live, but certainly in the UK Blackie and Ginger would be called "stray" dogs because in English "feral" means something different!

I hope that helps and please feel free to ask more questions

The best of luck!