morning all, just a question for you working gun-dog peeps out there. as some of you may know i have been taking sam to a local gun-dog training class. he has been doing okay. but now we are at the stage of letting all the dogs off lead. i feel really bad that i cannot do that with sam. its really upsetting me to see all the other spaniels running around and playing and doing what springers do, then going back straight to the handlers as soon as they whistle them to come. incidentally all the other dogs are very young, under 18 months old, and all have been owned since being puppies. poor sam cannot concentrate with all the distractions around, i cannot even get him to look at me. then i get really annoyed and i end up going home really upset and annoyed. maybe i am setting him up to fail by subjecting him to such high distractions that i know he cant cope with? i cant even get him to look at me, even when i call his name. i even took his fave treats with me and he just turned his nose up at it. maybe i should just do the things with him that make us both happy and that i know he is good at like agility, heelwork to music etc? what do you think? i really dont want to let him down, but i feel so useless when i take him to the class.
Sorry to hear this. I haven't got gundogs, but I would say that you should try not to compare Sam to the others (for one thing some of the younger ones won't have got into their 'teenage' phase yet and may well embarrass their owners when they do ;-) ) When you say that he won't pay attention to you, what is he doing instead - is he interested in the other dogs or just wanting to go off & explore? Perhaps you could talk to the trainers and see what they have to say - it might be that you can go at a slightly slower pace than everyone else - getting Sam to do simple things with all the distractions around him. If they think this might be a way forward, don't be embarrassed by it - I did the same with Hoki (6 years old in a class full of youngsters). But, at the end of the day, this type of thing is something you both need to enjoy and if you're not, don't force yourself to go....you do plenty of other things with Sam to keep him mentally & physically fit
hi hali, unfortunately there is only one trainer, so he cant really do one to ones. i know what you mean about the others only being youngsters! he does do what i ask of him, eventually, but i feel like i'm forcing him to just do the simplest of things, ie. sit etc. when he's sat down, he's not gagging at the lead to go, but i know if i let him off-lead he'd just bomb off! i cant even get him to look at me for even a nano second, even with his fave treats! maybe i am asking too much of him, and maybe the distractions etc are just too much for him to cope with. or will he eventually become immume to them?? i do practise waits, stays, sits, downs, attention etc on the field where i take him for his walks, and he's fine. plus there are alot of distractions there too. maybe i should keep to the things that i know he's good at and enjoys!!!
Hopefully Helen will come along with some advice before too long, but I would think that there is perhaps not much point in taking Sam gundog training until you have him listening and responding to basic commands. I know it is an uphill struggle sometimes dog training (my first dog was very difficult) but you will get there in the end if you persevere. Is there any reputable trainers in your area who can help you with just some one to one basic work? Have you voiced your concerns to the gundog trainer? How does he feel Sam is getting along?
Some training with distractions will be good for him, but as you say, not if its too much. It sounds to me like you do want to give it up and as I say, you do so much else with him, I don't think you should feel guilty if this is what you decide.
hi there, i cannot fault his attention in other training classes i do with him. he gives 200%. so i suppose cos i know how good he can be, i get annoyed and frustated with him which wont help either of us.
Ahh I see. Well if gundog training isn't for you, then don't beat yourself up about it and just enjoy your agility and obedience classes instead
Does he never give you attention when out or does he never give you attention when doing gundog type things? what i mean is is he sooooo busy doing the gundog things that he cant see or hear you? Some gundogs are so focused on the job nothing else matters like recalls! just a thaught!! Bracco's get selective deafness when nose down on scentand will hunt into the next count.My weimar loves to retrieve and can't see any one dog or human except who he is retrieving for. They get lost in the job they are doing Lesley
I definitely think you should concentrate on things that you both enjoy, otherwise what's the point? Training, in my eyes, should be fun for both dog and trainer. Training Springers can be hard work at the best of times (trust me! ) and if Gundog work isn't working for you and Sam then just move on to something that is. The more upset you get, the less likely Sam is to respond to you, so you're just going to end up in a viscious circle. Don't beat yourself up about it, find something you both really enjoy and, well, enjoy!!!!
hi lesley, yeah he does give me attention when we're out, but not when the distractions are so high. i can ask him to sit and he will, but he wont look at me, he just sits and shakes with excitement! he is definitely so busy being busy that he cant hear me! i know what you mean about selective deafness!!!
hi ripsnorterthe2nd, i think i will concentrate on the things that we both enjoy. with the gun-dog training i get so frustrated and annoyed which isnt good for either of us. i end up coming home really upset and angry that i'll never be able to get sam like the other youngsters in the class. on a good note though i took him to agility last night which he loves. i can do that off-lead with him now and i hardly ever lose his attention (unless someones dropped food on the ground!!). i also do HTM which he loves, so its not as if i dont do anything with him
Hi Springergirl, Sometimes when they go into gundog mode, nothing else matters! they just seem to be hard wired, its all in the brain and they just gotta do it. (unfortutatly it doesn't reach the ears!) a cocker at my dog club is the sweetest thing when at dog club but out in the field is just a hunting machine and won't return untill she has done what she has too do!!!! you tried working on a long line? sometimes it helps when they think you can reach them at 20 feet away!!!! Lesley
Oooo I've been there done that and got the T Shirt when it comes to having a dog that wont give you one ounce of attention at a gundog class as everything else is just sooo fascinating !!! When it came to other disciplines though (I used to do agility and I 'played' with working trials for a while) my flattie would give me 200% every time, a bit like your Sam I found the only way I could get the flatties attention was to actually back away from the group and if I could (I train on the Forest) then I would go behind a gorse bush so he couldnt see the other dogs. I gradually built it up but even now I can join the class, but - and this is just me- I can have the flatcoat sitting there quietly while the others go for their retrieves or are off hunting. But he has definately changed, from a bouncing mad black thing who would NOT even turn to look back at me (well he's a still mad black thing ) when a dog was working to now he will sit and lie down but even I can see that given a simple eye contact with him he would be up and off, he wont relax. But he is a hell of a lot more still and my shoulder is better off for it. If your coming away from gundog training annoyed and upset (been there too!) but your really enjoying the other disciplines you do then there's definately no shame in saying 'Not for me' After all we want to enjoy the activities as much as the dog, even if you decide not to go back, there's no harm in putting a few dummies down on a walk and have him on a long line if his recall is a bit dodgy. PS Even my boy after 3 years of training, My flattie has always had a fairly good recall but when it comes to working and he is on a scent he'll give me the equivilant of the V sign til he's finished
i definitely know that 'v' sign!!!!! by the way, had a different trainer last week at gun-dog and he seemed really good. said that my sam was very independent and has a free-spirit which he likes, i've just got to find a way of controlling it! so we'll see what happens now.....
