Border collie v working sheep dog Working Dogs

I have 2 bc's & 1 wsd.
I would definately always have wsd as i have found they have more drive.
Obviously not always the case as dogs are different. But going on personnal experience which one do you prefer?

I've only ever had ISDS registered dogs so cannot comment on others. All my dogs have been from very well planned breedings for work & so all my dogs have been what is now PC to call"High Drive"

The ISDS register Working Sheepdogs(Border Collies) & it is the Kennel Club that calls the self same dogs BCs only

The KC call any BC that is either of unknown parentage or non KC or ISDS parentage a WSD.& of course there are KC registered WSD that have other breeds in their pedigree

I could have registered my mongrel as a WSD with the KC she wasn't anything like a WSD(looked like a mini long coated GSD)but the KC would never have known.

My current dog is very very high work drive & is officially a BC according to the KC as he is ISDS registered ! but according to his ISDS registration he is a WSD

Thanks Dyane, now I am really confused!!!

My collie, Moss, is from ISDS parents and is ISDS registered himself. He isn't registered at all with the KC - so I assume (correct me if I am wrong though) that I should really refer to him as a working sheepdog rather than a border collie? It is all too confusing LOL! He was advertised in the Farmers Guardian as a border collie though! ;-)

I have only ever known "farm collies". Moss is my first personally owned collie, although I grew up with a variety of collies on my grandparents farm in Ireland. I do love the look of some of the show collies, but think I would prefer to go for a pup from good looking, health-checked ISDS lines as I have no interest in showing. Since getting a collie I have seen there are soooo many different types - including the farm-bred, show type and then a variety of "sports" bred collies specifically for obedience, agility, flyball etc. Quite amazing really!

LOL Moss would be a KC BC if you registered him

It's really silly they are(apart from the ones with the"other breed blood")all from the same dogs really

You could get this scenario.

Non ISDS member has an ISDS registered bitch & breeds it with an ISDS dog-Their puppies can be registered as BC with the KC( as both parents are ISDS registered) even though they can't be registered with the ISDS(only members can register puppies & both parents have to be owned by ISDS members)

One of the puppies which is not KC registered is bred to a registered ISDS dog & the KC call the puppies WSD. Another puppy is KC registered & bred to the same registered ISDS dog & the KC call those puppies BC's

My WSD has a high drive. Thats what i love about them. My 2 BC's are very different in temperament & build. They could quite easily sleep all day

Well all my WSD(which were also BC's) all had "high drive"there were times when I wished they didn't

Thanks Dyane - so it is the KC that messes everything up?!

I don't think Moss is typical of the working collie strain, although, as he is my first, it is hard to be sure! He is a giant for a start! He stands almost as tall as my GSD bitch, and she isn't particularly small. He also has a very wide head! He is a pretty laid back chap, who loves everyone and everything. When I started working him on sheep at a young age he did show some promise, in fact a spectator (who had many years experience in sheepdogs) said he was a natural. He seemed to me to be a deep thinker, not rushing his sheep but taking his time to decide what they were going to do. He was also quite strong eyed at that time, but not sure he would be this way now (he is 15 months).

He isn't at all hyper and will lounge around the house when I do, but can also run for miles when we go fell walking.

He has been a great introduction into this marvellous breed actually, and I am not sure I would be without a collie now.

Here you can see the size comparison with my GSD ...

LOLOL Sheep dogs come in all sorts of sizes & I think years ago they might have been smaller because they were never fed the top quailty food they get now !

I used to have GSDs & always had a WSD/BC as well best of both worlds

No GSD at the moment, but I plan to import one from a very good friend sometime in the future

I love the GSD/WSD BC WHATEVER combination - I think they work really well together. I have always had sheps in the past, and will most likely always have a duo of shepherd and collie in the future.

Can I ask where you are importing your GSD from? Will he/she be a working line dog?

My 2 bc's have no working line in them at all. Both were bred from show stock.
But Fenn is from working stock. Shes mad. Great fun though.
Fenn is much leaner & athletic, my bc's are stocky & square & more susceptable to lameness.
I will always have a farm bred wsd.

Not sure if I should reply to this thread really as I'm not sure if my opinion applies?

From personal experience I would say BCs as I've had nothing but bad experiences with WSDs. I've been bitten by several myself (once on the face) and my dogs have been attacked numerous times by sheepdogs. I do believe, though, that this has a lot to do with them being farm dogs and therefore having no real socialisation etc????

But as I say for me it would be BCs, whenever I see WSDs I try to get away as fast as possible. :-(

PS - Saying that I'm not overly keen on the look of the "show" BC as I think they detract from the original BC.

I know what you are saying. Its awful when you have had a bad experience with a particular dog. Our dogs at the farm are like that.

It is a shame, as I'm sure they're lovely.

I have took a huge dislike to Akitas since Fenn & myself got attacked by one. But i'm sure they are not all bad.

Wouldn't trust our farm dogs Bob & Jo. Jo has a really high drive & a hard nip to go with it. Hes a damn good sheep dog.

WSDs aren't the only dog I'm "wary" of, but then I guess that's the case for most people.

Perhaps in the case of WSDs it's about knowing the dog and it's temperament? Unfortunately not many farmers round here seem to bother. :-(

Sorry off topic, I'll shut up now!

Of course your opinion applies My Moss is a WSD (so we seem to have surmised! lol). I wish you could meet him, he is the biggest, soppiest lump around and would love you and your dogs. He has however been well socialised from a tiny pup, trained and was well-bred from parents with great temperaments as well as strong working ability. I think you have hit the nail on the head saying that most working collies don't have the socialisation with people and other dogs that companion dogs have. Of course this isn't always the case, and the breeder of my dog takes great care over the pups he breeds/raises. He is a farmer but also a well known triallist and author of the breed.

I have to say though that when I have met companion collies, whether they be WSDs or BCs, it seems to be the BCs who have the poorer temperament - especially with other dogs. Again, this is a vast generalisation, and only borne out of my own experience.

At the end of the day, you get good and bad temperament in every breed and it should be up to breeders (of show/companion or working dogs) to breed the best all-round pups possible, and temperament should be at the top of their list!

Sorry for rambling !!

He(don't do bitches lol) will be from my German friend Petra He will probably be a dark grey sable & yes he will be working bred Much more my type of GSD

I could have one from the litter that is due shortly but he would be 10 months old before he could come to the UK, in a couple of years time the 6 months will be going & as soon as the titre level test is posivtive the dogs will be able to enter the UK as they can in other parts of Europe

There are some beautiful dogs on the site. I love my longcoats though - although unfortunately I have yet to find a working line breeder who has coated dogs :?

Good luck with HIM

LOL Petra has bred one fluffy there's a picture on the site. In germany the SV will not register the puppies from longcoats as the dog will not pass the breed survey(where the dog is assessed against the breed standard) & the incorrect coat would fail the survey.

The "working"lines in the Uk that breed LC aren't really "working lines"but obedience lines.

I don't have a problem with the LC GSDs but it is a breed fault & as should shouldn't be bred for. i tattooed some lovely LC puppies recently very dark, nice temperaments but to me they just weren't correct GSDs.

The LC gene is recessive of course & goes back to the Hovawart type ancesters of the GSD(where the so called "white"also comes from to only the pale Hovawarts are called "blond(s)"& are gold rather thsn white & of course most "white"GSDs are far from "white")

I think the reason GSDs & BC/WSDs get on so well is because they are both sheep/stock working breeds