Hi all. Please can somebody give me a little info about what to look for when wanting a GS. Know about the hip scoring,but what else? Not wanting for showing as would be family pet that would have a very active and A+ Exercise regime when older enough.Seen plent of litters for sale,but not to sure which way to go as some are stating farm bred with no papers,others with KC docs.but not hipscored. Sorry for all qusetions but my breed as always been the sbt,but we did have gsd 20 odd yrs ago,but they look so different now with the arched backs,sorry but not keen on thiis type.Help much appreiceted. thanks.
Do you want a puppy? only there`s lots of young GSDs in Breed Rescues like Vigil where you`d get back-up and advice as well?
All GSDs should be from a Hip/Elbow scored parents & the father should be tested for haemophilia. Also the full pedigree should by now contain only health tested dogs/bitches, there is no excuse to breed from dogs that do not come fully tested lines. Plus I would not recommend an unregistered litter as they are highly unlikely to be health tested. The dogs should also be bred to fit the breed standard & not simply for coat type, colour etc I'm heavily involved with GSD rescue up here in the north & see so many poorly bred GSDs come into rescue not just because they are unwanted, but because they have a myriad of health problems. Some of these dogs have been sold for silly prices(anything from £600 upwards)just because they are longcoated &/or a non standard colour. It is far better to buy a puppy from a breeder, who health tests all their dogs as a matter of routine & breeds to improve the breed, who might have a puppy that is a non standard coat type/colour, than someone who only breeds for them. Decide what you want from an adult GSD & look for a breeder who is responsible-offers a lifetime of support & who breeds to improve the breed & not just for the appearance of the dog. My next GSD will be from Germany from working lines, he will be from fully health tested parents, with a proven working ability & bred to the breed standard(hopefully a grey GSD as I love the colour-in the UK grey GSDs are dark sables) & he will be a puppy.
or you could get a healthy rescue from a reputable organisation and save a life. eta - I have had rescues all my life. None had hip problems etc. They all lived to old age. My last had some allergy problems, that`s all.
Have all your dogs been hip scored then by the rescue before rehoming ? Sorry but you cannot gauge HD by external observations, my BC bitch has a 56 hip score but you cannot tell by her external appearance & movement. Are you suggesting that the Rescue that I help out with(that has been in existence for over 40 years)is not reputable because not all the dogs they take in there are not perfectly healthy & well bred dogs ????? I sincerely hope not as I would take great exception to sledging a rescue that I know you will have no knowledge of at all It all depends on what the OP wants in her GSD, I have had rescues in the past, however I now want a dog from known background for competition & few rescues would be able to supply what I need in a dog. If the OP has an older dog which might not accept a non puppy then why should the OP go to a rescue just to please some members on here ? Contrary to what the RSPCA & many others believe GSD breed rescues are not full of puppies or very young healthy GSDs with the correct temperament & character. They are far more likely to have 1 yr + dogs that have been poorly bred & untrained-fine if you want to retrain a dog, but perhaps not suitable for a first time GSD owner, who would be possibly better with the blank canvas of a young well bred puppy
For a pet home you don`t need a highly bred dog. In fact, buying from a breeder will not - can not- guarantee a dog free of all `defects` in either temperament or physique. Breeding science just isn`t that advanced. In any case dogs are put into rescue for a variety of reasons - usually to do with the owners` circumstances, not because the dog isn`t show quality. My dogs have come to me in the main because they were bought as pups from the breeder by people who didn`t have the time or will to train them or socialise them. They have been fine healthy dogs. Your initial post implied that GSDs in rescue are unhealthy. I`m sure you didn`t mean that, but it`s how it came across. I feel that a first time GSD owner would benefit from a dog with the backup of a good GSD rescue. The OP specifically stated the dog would not be for showing, and said she didn`t like the `arched backs`.
I work in rescue, and i havent dealt with a few hundred GSD's. Invariably, and most often, they came in due to incapable/unskilled owners who bought a GSD on a whim without due research, then mishandled the dog defensively and inadvertently bought out the Shephered guardy trait. Meaning the owners couldn't control a strong shepherd lunging and barking. Once the dog had the right person on the other end of the lead, who kept the lead relaxed and not tensed up, they reverted back to good sociable dogs. So my advice to the OP. Dont buy a GSD as a guard dog, dont encourage the guard trait, and dont use a tense/tight/short lead.
Where did I recommend going to"show"breeder ?? Do point it out to me please & BTW where did I direct the OP to any particular breeder or type I'm sorry to disillusion you, but responsibly bred GSDs(& any other breeds)rarely end up in rescue, because the breeders take them back. The poorly bred for money dogs are the ones that end up is rescue, as the breeders rarely are interested in taking their "products"back. Just because your personal choice is a rescue from Vigil GSD rescue, doesn't mean that such a dog will be suitable for the OP. Why she they HAVE to have a rescue because they will get a good back up ?? So responsible breeders don't provide a lifetime's back up ? Breed unhealthy dogs ? No one can guarantee that any dog is 100% healthy, but what I do know from over 50 years of owning, breeding & rescuing GSDs is the healthier the parents the healthier the offspring. They are far better puppies produced today from health tested assessed dogs that there were 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. You are implying that the rescue that I help isn't a good one because they get poorly bred dogs into their kennels & referred to them. In all the time the rescue has been running(over 50 years)5 dogs from responsible breeders have been taken in, One was a dog I bred, the owner told the rescue lady I had told him to get lost when he contacted me-which he hadn't done & i collected him the next day), one the breeder was dead-but a close friend organized taking the dog in, the 3rd/4th were kept by the rescue lady with the breeders consent & the 5th was our kast GSD whose breeder was willing & able to take her back, but was happy for us to keep her. Our kennels rehome between 300 & 400 dogs a year so do the mathematics about the dogs bred by responsible breeders as a percentage. The vast majority of the dogs are Long coated, many many are white/blue etc & few come anywhere near the breed standard add to this the poor upbringing most of them have had & the odds of getting a "perfect"1st GSD from any rescue is very small. The problem for 1st time buyers if they want the English old fashioned 1940s to date long, low, heavily boned"straight"backed GSD from a breeder who does any health testing is minimal, because these breeders shy away from health testing because they prefer ignorance to knowledge of a possible problem with the health of their dogs.
To the op sbt4eva, a rescue could be a good idea - it homes/saves a life, doesn't subsidise breeding of our over crowded dog population and sometimes you can get a better idea of a young or adult dog as opposed to the first time young puppy. You can and do get well bred/healthy gsds from rescue, some show line, some working lines - hell sometimes they even get in whole litters of WORKING lines complete with papers etc! joedee, hope you're listening! There are no guarantees in life but there are many reasons to opt for a rescue, should you decide differently, and are opposed to the showline look, perhaps seek out a working line breeder who health checks all their dogs. State you are looking for a pet for a family home as in most litters, there is generally always at least one which will not have pronounced working drives. that's just an idea.
You are totally entitled to your opinion. And I am entitled to mine. Just because mine differs from yours there is no need to get ...dogmatic. What happens to the dogs in the rescue you work with? Do you not rehome them? Anyway, back OT.. I had a perfect 1st. GSD. (rehome) I currently have completely healthy current rescue, and so was the previous rescued one. The foster before that would have been healthy if the guy who owned her believed in spaying as she developed mamary cancer at age 11. Hips were fine though. Now the one I got from the breeder had hormone problems but that`s another story. For a pet home you don`t want or need a dog costing thousands. I think you`d be better getting a dog from a reputable rescue than a cheapie from a less-than-top-flight breeder.
hi all,sorry not replied earlier but had comp virus.Many thanks for all your replies/advice. i have always had rescues,my male sbt was adopted at 4months,my bitch was the the first ever dog i bought from a wee pup. now both my sbts live and love the active lifesyle,i am a believer in trying to fufil my dogs needs through diferrent exercise,stimuation etc.they lead a very active life.so my two are now 2years old and a very balanced pair,never had any issues.my male is so laid back he coud be a deckchair ,my bitch is very submissive to any older bitch.i would truly love to add another rescue as thats what my heart says,but my head says adding a pup is the best way to go. dont want to cause any upset to my dogs or a adult rescue by fetching one into my home. i would consider a female under a year old as long as the meetings went ok befor hand,but i feel ive defo done my share of rescues and would really prefer to buy a pup,even though it does upset me to think i may have passed up rescue.i want a gsd that will beable to exercise and join in with our outdoors lifestyle.
For me with gsds, if you don't want to take on a rescue, there is only one way to go - go to a breeder, preferably by recommendation, who health tests all their stock and whose dogs come from a line of health tested dogs. My personal preference is for the workline gsds - to me they have a more moderate balanced appearanced usually without arched backs, they are more agile, fitter and would fit in well with an active lifestyle. I find a well bred workline gsd has a more steady, calmer and well balanced temprement. It is also very responsive to training. That said it is more important that a workline gsd receives good motivational training from a firm but fair leader, otherwise its drives could get out of hand. As someone said if the dog is simply to be an active pet, try to find a workline breeder who does not breed the more extreme working gsds, and tell them the pup is to be a pet so that they can pick out one of the more laid back pups. Good luck with your hunt.
Of course they are rehomed after sometimes a long rehabilitation & often very expensive veterinary attention. Do Vigil rehome ALL the dogs that they take in straight away ? as from your experience they are all perfectly healthy good clinically & psychologically(although this isn't the case from the dogs currently with Vigil on the internet) As the OP has two adult SBTs a puppy would be the best option as getting a well balanced rescue bitch under the age of 12 months is IMHE a very long shot.
thanks for advice. im used to firm but fair having owned sbts and a ebt now the hunt can begin for a pup.im under no ilusions this may take a while to find the right pup.can i jusk ask if i shoud stay away from non kc dogs,but have their pedigrees. also what hip/elbow scores needed? sorry for all questions.
GSDs are great dogs and it sounds as though one will fit in very well in your active household. There are many young GSDs (and even pups) that come into rescue, so it might be worth emailing the breed rescues and letting them know what kind of GSD you are looking for and telling them about yourself and what you can offer a GSD. They will then let you know if they have anything suitable or keep you in mind if a young dog comes in that might suit you. Otherwise, try to decide which type of GSD your preference is. Do you like the workline dogs or the obedience type, or the show type - do you like the standard coat and colour, or the longcoats? There are lots of threads on Dogsey about the differences in type. My preference is for the longcoats. However, I am not keen on the heavy boned English type longcoats, so Yogi is from WG showlines. My next pup (in the future) will be either the same breeder as Yogi, or else a breeder down South who breeds longcoat working line shepherds. I have an active lifestyle, live in the countryside, and train Yogi in basic obedience, search and track and also agility. He is excelling at all three He has a friendly, outgoing temperament and is sensible and calm. He is actually everything I have ever wanted from a shepherd I will PM you his breeders details if you are interested.
I would steer well clear of unregistered dogs. The lower the hip score the better idea would be two 0:0=0 scored parents, but this is very rare, what you need to look for is a fully health tested pedigree, ie all the male Haemophilia normal, all the dogs hip scored under the breed mean/median score(the current breed mean/medians can be found on the BVA site)& the elbows 0, there is such a wide gene pool for GSDs that there is no need to breed from any dog/bitch with an elbow score above 0. The full pedigree may not have elbow scoring in it as it is a fairly new test I would be wary of anyone who has bred their two pet dogs together(it's different if the breeder has a kennels & shows/works their dogs & has different bloodlines amongst their dogs)as they are very unlikely to have two dogs whose pedigrees work well together. It is very important to see the mother(not necessarily with the puppies if they are 4 weeks or older), but the norm is to use an good outside stud so the father may not be available(but you should still be able to see his photograph, health tests results & pedigree) Do not take the breeders word for the dogs being health tested, they will have the certificates for the bitch & copies for the dog & if they say they haven't get the registered pedigree name & check via the KC Health test search facility. If you go to a responsible breed they should be able to match you with the puppy(ies)that will be suitable for your requirements. If they simply offer you the choice of any puppy I would be concerned that they do not care about/understand the characters/temperaments of their dogs. I personally like a bold self assured character, but this is not always suitable for a pet home as it can lead to the dog being bored without a lot of training/mind stretching work, the more laid back non demanding puppy is probably more suitable.
hi,and many thanks for advice. wow all the different lines,sorry im used to sbts to put it in simple terms of what i want.. just after a healthy well reared pup from sound parents,like yourself im always up in the woods/hill that is only a few secs away. love giving my two sbt different enviroments to run in like yorkshire moors,river walks etc. unfortunalty the names in pedigrees etc at the mo to me are blah blah just want a dog thats a great family member and will love to run alongside my two when older enough.not intrested in showing/breeding,so colour or coat is not a issue.temprement and physical fitness is my priorority.hope i dont come across as niave,but the pup/dog is gonna be a pet,sleeping on my bed and taking over the sofa i do springpole.firtpole and aframe with my two,also love doing mental training as well as physical.
One other point about hips, as well as an overall low score an even score, ie the same for each hip in the parents is ideal or only one number different. That is a dog with a 4-4 total 8 score is preferable to a dog with a 6-2 total 8 score. Also elbow scores are different & a 0 is desirable but I would only consider a 0 or 1 score
