A quick NI-BI question

Hi Liz, love the last comment

I cannot and will not believe person/s who clearly have vast ulterior motives.

Perhaps if they had put their money where their mouths are and stopped breeding these dogs (if what they now imply is what they believed to be true, why wouldn't they do this ), they could've been taken more seriously.

The quoted passage speaks for itself, IMHO.

so what you are saying is that what the club you belong to says is true? i believe theres been more falling out on that committee lately.Is it a case of members leaving to start new clubs? seems to be a pattern doesnt it.
ive read that theres lots of false paperwork, the dogs ive seen posted often differ considerably in size, looks and coat. there also appears to be lots of health issues.
they cant be a breed because they havent got a respected governing body, the clubs are a joke and i feel thats what the KC will think this also.
nobody can trace these dogs all the way back can they so basically theres no chance and i believe the people "in charge" know this. they wouldnt want the KC involved because things would have to be done correctly. these dogs are no more a breed than Alaskan Huskies.

yes answer the question, what makes a breed?

No , I am saying that the passage I quoted was SC speaking on behalf of the NIS as she was CP at the time. What so because she was removed from the NIS and later a club she founded TIDA, now that makes what she wrote invalid? I don't see how.

Yeah, the dogs have a way to go. But they are only a very new breed. I have said this before and will again, my cat breed has dubious origins yet it is a legitimate, recognised breed. There is no reason that the NID cannot be the same, in years to come.

Now I am off to work. Goodnight.

ps I don't take kindly to demands We all know what makes a breed Well, I do, maybe you and Marie don't hence the reapeted question Marie if you hadn't of lied about me being online and looking when I wasn't , I would've answered you, it isn't really hard is it

i have seen you demand questions answered on here werewolf, seems you dont like it when people ask the same of you.
if you dont then i would suggest you dont demand answers from others.

i know what makes a breed. i look at my dogs KC papers and that tells me all i need to know.
that's a lot more than what an NI owner has im sorry to say.
Don't get me wrong, some of the dogs look lovely, shame that many potential owners believe some of the stuff they are told in terms of recognition, temperament etc.

Do you think JK does that Nes? How many litters this year so far? Do you think asking members of a forum is the best way to go about choosing a stud dog just because a bitch is in season, as I feel and I know most other decent breeders would, that this would be something planned way ahead, not put to member of a forum!

I feel that this sort of "ethical" breeding is hardly the type of thing you would expect from a person supposedly at the head of affairs within a breed eh?

Serious questions Nes.

I know some of the health committee have started there own forum for ethical breeding. I was invited to join having 4 bitches in whelp then asked not to as they have all the help they need???????
Seems they not getting what they need from NIS and started a mini NIS LOL thats out of character breaking ranks and starting something new
Also anyone else noticed NIS gonr all secretive again are the bickering again?

Agree Dawn, you would not expect a Breed Advisor for the society asking members on a forum which stud dog to use.

Yes - written on the instruction of JK - it was because I wanted to tell the truth and not keep fobbing people off that I fell out with JK and left the NIS - well that was one of the reasons.

Remember, for a start - that at that time CWD were illegal and they were being crossed with NI and sold as NI and BI. They are now legal and so long as prospective buyers know exactly what is in their pup I don't have a problem with crossing - but at that time I did because it was illegal and people were not told what they were buying in many instances.

We had only just started gathering info for the genepool and I had a file full of correspondence with the KC - I've still got it - and after hitting a certain button on the database one day it threw the whole database out and showed that the whole thing was a lie! No way was that going to be accepted by the KC. Some dogs were even down as having sired litters before they had even been conceived themselves! Do you not think the KC would have noticed such a flaw in the database?

No you wouldn't.

Most serious breeders spend a lot of time researching and doing 'test matings' on paper or computer - usually 2 years in advance.

When you have a litter you are very often thinking ahead to what you will put a bitch from that litter to - very often before it is even born you are playing with co-efficiency etc. and planning ahead.

Not grabbing the most convenient nice looking dog that is around on the day!

Sorry Sandra dont believe you were unaware of what was going on you were president.

Excuse me - would just like to correct you once again.

For the record I wasn't removed from either club.

A meeting was in place to set up TIDA long before my ultimate decision to leave the NIS and set up TIDA - the meeting was between certain NIS committee members to see if they wanted me to stay and fight JK for what was right - or to leave and set up a better club. Ian Hoole himself knew about that meeting and was supposed to attend - instead of that he chickened out and told JK about the meeting.

I left TIDA for personal reasons - ok I will put it on here. I was accused of having an affair with the guy who took over as Chairperson. It seems it was ok for him to have an affair, a married man, but not ok for me - a single person!

President? of what?

If you are talking about the NIS then I couldn't care less whether you believe it or not - most of the current committee are still in the dark as to what is really going on.

It wasnt until we had spent nearly two years on the database that things didnt quite add up and we started asking awkward questions, and needed to be got rid of.

h

sorry to come in on this late but does this mean that all
breeding stock will be hip scored . Will older dogs who are not hip scored be scored? Surley if not they do not fit the criteria because you will never know just how good or bad their own hips are . It is good to see breeders doing all these important health tests hopefully the minority will become the majority .

It was agreed by the breed clubs that any dog born before 1st Jan 2006 (I think it was) needn't be scored. It was thought at that time that there needed to be a cut off point and as dogs born before that date had been used and some were getting on in years, then any hip scoring done wouldn't reflect the true score had that dog been scored at 12 months old.

I'm not saying whether this was right or wrong - just what was agreed at that time.

I think dogs born after 2006 should be scored, I would doubt VERY much if those born earlier would be done subsequently, although some may of had them done as they reached the appropriate age before the rule was introduced.

See Seelpup, Julie Kelham has produced several dogs with HD that we know of.

"Genglars Blackfoot" is being used for breeding now, sister to the bitch "Genglars Kynance of Mahlek" or "Zuni" who in both litters (may of had more litters) produced pups with VERY high scores, being 50, 44 and 56, the latter being Kate Hearne's "Riot" Yet, still neither Zuni nor Blackfoot (dont know her pet name) have been hip scored!! You'd think that with hip scores being produced like that the bitches would be excluded from the breeding program TOTALLY, and thats only knowing the scores that we do, who knows what the others in the litters are like, those in pet homes perhaps?